Can Stealing Ever Be Justified ?

[farmerm]

Right and wrong. Crime and punishment yes yes, we get it.

Taking expensive clothes from a shop to flog for money that’s theft.

Taking a couple of ready meals or a can of formula for a child would you be willing to Jail them for that?

I think you will find theft out of necessity is dwarfed by the theft out of want.

 

[Devil's advocate]

It’s the whole justice system gone mad.

Anything under £100 the police and courts can’t be asked to deal with it, I see it nearly every time I go to the local Asda, a hooded youth stuffing a leg of lamb or bottles of spirits up his jumper before making for the door.

Security don’t really bother either after the case a while ago local ish, of the guard tackling someone with bottles of wine and getting charged with murder after they smashed after an altercation.
(https://news.sky.com/story/amp/shop...y-guard-smashes-hidden-glass-bottles-10762653)

The security guards attitude is I’m not paid enough for that, which to be fair if the courts are more on the side of the wrong ‘nes than the good guys can you blame em….

tougher sentences and more (tougher) police is the only answer.

A farmshop I supply has a drinks licensce, police would not come to bottle thefts (big ones) So the Grandma stands there with a rolling pin & she will use it with force & dosen't care what happens.

 

[Wellytrack]

I think you will find theft out of necessity is dwarfed by the theft out of want.

The thread title is “Can stealing ever be justified”

 

[betternextyear]

I think you will find theft out of necessity is dwarfed by the theft out of want.

My wife has 30 years experience in retail and most of shoplifting theft is to fund drug taking. The rest is proffesional east european gangs. The police havent been interested in either for 20 years

 

[farmerm]

The thread title is “Can stealing ever be justified”

was I replying to the title or a post

 

[Netherfield]

Recon I'd have given them some bags and said help yourself.

Maybe you would, but they weren't your potatoes.

I doubt the miners would have helped said farmer if he ended up going out of business.

 

[serf]

Dave Attenborough sticks in my mind for that, lead a very privileged life seen things 99% of us will never see, don’t get me wrong I’ve enjoyed his programs but he’s got very preechy about it, and I get that he’s in a prime position to educate us on the environment but it’s bloody hypocrisy…….and Michael Palin!

Yep he's done brilliant programs , and should have left it at that but no he had to undo his good work by pulling the rope ladder up on his way out ....

 

[Wellytrack]

was I replying to the title or a post

You quoted and replied to my post, you know the one that contained in my view the qualifier for the OP’s thread title.

You may also note in the same post what I view as theft.

Professional criminals, crime gangs, those raiding to fund drugs or other criminal enterprises and those who hurt, injure or kill their victims whist in the process of said crime deserve all due punishment.

Poverty isn’t just an urban issue, plenty of rural people grew up unbelievably impoverished and rarely would they have even asked for help, but neighbours either offered help or in some cases turning a blind eye to desperation…

 

[ollie989898]

Need to build a lot more prison space. Simple as that.

Low-level offenders will pick litter in orange boiler suits.

This country is going to the dogs.

 

[Oldmacdonald]

That will be reported crime, a lot of crime simply goes unreported today no point.

In whichh case its anecdotal and not statistacally relelvant.

 

[Top Tip.]

In whichh case its anecdotal and not statistacally relelvant.

Nonsense, it has still occurred.

 

[ollie989898]

In Kenya we are constantly losing stuff. We are percieved to be rich and white so it’s o.k. We once had a herdsman give a cow away because we had plenty more. However if they catch someone stealing from them they’ll set fire to them.

Can you not let your workforce know that if another local is truly hungry/dirt poor you will give them some food etc? Is there not a way you can instil in your workers some degree of personal investment in the place so that they guard it as if it was their own?

 

[Red Fred]

Dad had a theory that crime came in waves based on the generations at the local council estate. We certainly had thefts in the '60s when the first wave of teenagers were growing up there, then they discovered cars/drink/girls and moved on to other things until the next wave came along. Now they seem to be much better behaved and the lads and lasses who are now in their 60s come on the town facebook page and we all laugh about their teenage pranks.
Dad was all for beheading thieves, but he had a sliding scale of morals which exempted certain activities. These included:
Things falling off the backs of lorries- our first colour tellie was a rental-only Rediffusion that appeared after an exchange of several notes, and came with a warning that it mustn't be repaired by anyone from the company as they weren't meant for sale.
Surplus building materials- the concreting of the yards strangely coincided with the construction of the A31/A338 dual carriageways into Bournemouth.
Car parts- if we went to the breakers to find a bonnet for the Morris Minor, we had to come home with pockets full of bulbs, cables trim and anything else portable as "it was what everyone did and it was all factored into the rip-off price of the bonnet."

In earlier times, what would now be thefts, pilfering and other vandalism were considered boyhood pranks and a harmless bit of fun. These went as far as pinching .303 machine gun ammunition from the airfield at the expense of the war effort and removing personal items such as clothing and rings (and supposedly even body parts like the odd finger) from air crash sites ("They were only Jerries so they don't count")
So I'm not convinced that there was a golden crime free era at some point between the crime infested era of Sherlock Holmes' London, and the things I remember in the 60s and 70s.

 

[quattro]

A few acres of Potatoes went missing during the Miners strike 1984-85, mostly taken by women.

One farmer I knew in Selby said 'would you try tackle a mob of angry women' the police were already busy enough on the picket lines to offer any help.

There was a small field of spuds disappeared near riccall mine entrance along with all the post and rail fencing which they burned

 

[Netherfield]

Need to build a lot more prison space. Simple as that.

Low-level offenders will pick litter in orange boiler suits.

This country is going to the dogs.

The reality is no they won't.

Offenders come to the graveyard up the road, mini bus with around eight of them, two men keeping an eye on them, supposed to be weeding and clearing paths and around the graves.
Strimmers and loppers and PPE all provided, it's like 4 hour shift they do.

Plenty of talking and smoking, sitting on the graves, very little gets done at all, of the two watching one in turn sits inside the church, while the other sit's and reads outside, any sign of rain and they're all straight back in the bus.

But they will all have knocked 4 hours off their community service payback instead of going to a young offenders institute.

I did ask one of the watchers what they had all done, shoplifting and drug offences mainly, of course the shoplifting was just to feed the drug habit.

 

[Exfarmer]

The reality is no they won't.

Offenders come to the graveyard up the road, mini bus with around eight of them, two men keeping an eye on them, supposed to be weeding and clearing paths and around the graves.
Strimmers and loppers and PPE all provided, it's like 4 hour shift they do.

Plenty of talking and smoking, sitting on the graves, very little gets done at all, of the two watching one in turn sits inside the church, while the other sit's and reads outside, any sign of rain and they're all straight back in the bus.

But they will all have knocked 4 hours off their community service payback instead of going to a young offenders institute.

I did ask one of the watchers what they had all done, shoplifting and drug offences mainly, of course the shoplifting was just to feed the drug habit.

What can one expect with these juvenile criminals, the old saying was, ”one boy’s a boy, 2 boys are half a boy, and three boys are no boys at all”

 

[delilah]

Is this some sort of sarcasm that I am missing or are you publicly declaring that you are no better than a common thief?

The latter.

 

[PI Stsker]

Come to think of it arnt we all abut partial to stealing?
Any left over hot tarmac, which we know rightfully should be kept by the highways and used elsewhere but the guys on the job can’t be asked certainly has its uses…
As does road chippings, concrete, telegraph poles, Haras fencing, scaf poles etc all left behind by various utility companies…?

 

[borderterribles]

If there weren't so many willing purchasers amongst rural communities there wouldn't be so much thieving from rural communities, would there?

 

[holywell farmer]

Sad fact is in some areas theft has gone up due to cost of living, it can't be a nice situation if have to steal food to feed yourself or your children.