Can we all carry on farming?

[digger64]

What do you mean?

if a left wing gov came in like corbyn say ,this is how 3 generation tenancies where created in the past -unearned income

 

[Lincsman]

It’s ok lads Boris has decided to give another 48 million to the farming investment fund to plug the Ukrainian wheat gap most of which will be gobbled up by inflated prices , middle men and the running of defra

Does that mean he will pay me to plant fallow land with spring wheat?

 

[hally]

Will have to look it up but actually I have just bought some chicory for £10 a kilo, up from £5.50 so the £80 a ha may no longer be pissible.

Yep a few are up especially Timothy, but most mixes are similar to last year…..thank god

 

[Bossfarmer]

I think there’s going to be some heated discussions within contract farming agreements due to the fert and fuel because most of them are set up to effectively pay a set rent over the duration of the agreement. If the contractor suddenly says look our fuel bill has doubled to do the work and fertiliser is up by 200% and the subsidy is being reduced so we need to wind in the ‘rent’ in. I’ve a friend is Scotland that’s already fallen out with his contractor over his 1500ac. So the agreement has fallen apart and he’s going to put the lot into CS and Woodland as he’s fed up and his children aren’t interested. The contractors going mad because he refused to take the hit on the cost rises. My friend said a signed deal is a signed deal.

what part of scotland? ill take it on

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

What seed rate are you working on?

Cocksfoot 3.75kg, chicory, 2.13; red clover 3.44; Timothy 1.8; (the main drivers). Might have used more chicory if it hadn't doubled in price. Wondering how easy it would be to combine some.

White 1kg
Black medic 0.6
birdsfoot trefoil, 0.4
Lucerne 1.2
Sainfoin 5 (it's cheap)
Plaintain 0.31
Sweet clover 1.34
Burnet 0.28
Yarrow 0.28
Sheeps parsley 0.28
Yellow trefoil 1.69
Balansa clover 0.25
Tall fescue 0.25

It's slightly driven by what I already had in the shed rather than a bespoke mix. The total cost is £121 per ha, so more than I thought, and that's with old stock at old prices. I might dial back the seed rate on that basis and the number of species in it.

 

[hally]

cost difficult to calculate at the moment, timothy prices have increased substantially for example yet others hardly moved at all. Strange times but I think the nitrogen job is going to change a lot of thinking. Increased milk price may cushion the dairy guys but beef/sheep men will have to adapt over the next few years.

 

[som farmer]

Cocksfoot 3.75kg, chicory, 2.13; red clover 3.44; Timothy 1.8; (the main drivers). Might have used more chicory if it hadn't doubled in price. Wondering how easy it would be to combine some.

White 1kg
Black medic 0.6
birdsfoot trefoil, 0.4
Lucerne 1.2
Sainfoin 5 (it's cheap)
Plaintain 0.31
Sweet clover 1.34
Burnet 0.28
Yarrow 0.28
Sheeps parsley 0.28
Yellow trefoil 1.69
Balansa clover 0.25
Tall fescue 0.25

It's slightly driven by what I already had in the shed rather than a bespoke mix. The total cost is £121 per ha, so more than I thought, and that's with old stock at old prices. I might dial back the seed rate on that basis and the number of species in it.

we have decided to cut chicory rate back to 100gms acre, it just seems to have exploded here, to the detriment of other 'things', Plantain is a real winner, have overseeded some ground with balsana clover, yet to see the result, but told it puts its roots down first, and we have more to use. We tend towards higher ph, so sainfoin and lucerne, might be dodgy, have grown lucerne straight, on brash, excellent crop, we stopped, because we couldn't grow protein energy and grass, not enough acres. Trefoil grows in hedge banks, so could do well, and the inclusion rate of the rest, can be 'low' therefore cheap. Looking at this this month. But, all legumes will be used as far as possible !

 

[B'o'B]

I think the answer the the OP is - No, we cannot carry on farming (as we have done).
There will be ways to farm, but they will not follow the "standard model" of the last 25 years. Risk is off the scale compared to this time 2 years ago, and as primary producers with a reducing safety net (BPS) we urgently need to address that and shed costs. The storm (that feels to me) that has started is going to take some riding out for everyone.

 

[glasshouse]

I think there’s going to be some heated discussions within contract farming agreements due to the fert and fuel because most of them are set up to effectively pay a set rent over the duration of the agreement. If the contractor suddenly says look our fuel bill has doubled to do the work and fertiliser is up by 200% and the subsidy is being reduced so we need to wind in the ‘rent’ in. I’ve a friend is Scotland that’s already fallen out with his contractor over his 1500ac. So the agreement has fallen apart and he’s going to put the lot into CS and Woodland as he’s fed up and his children aren’t interested. The contractors going mad because he refused to take the hit on the cost rises. My friend said a signed deal is a signed deal.

Contract farming is supposed to be a partnership,
No sign of that there

 

[nick...]

Contract farming is supposed to be a partnership,
No sign of that there

Contract farming will be all loss now for farmer and contractor.i really can’t see how it can continue.I’m sure a lot of contractors will walk away from it aswell.anyone given it up yet.
nick…

 

[Spud]

Fair enough but the contractor should not be paid first as its not his asset.

Crazy - the contractor provides a service, which needs to be paid for before a return on asset - that is part of the risk taken as an active farmer.

 

[Secret Agronomist]

Contract farming will be all loss now for farmer and contractor.i really can’t see how it can continue.I’m sure a lot of contractors will walk away from it aswell.anyone given it up yet.
nick…

Land agents will still get their cut

 

[midlandslad]

Land agents will still get their cut

They will be too busy falling over themselves to serve rent review notices at the moment.

 

[glasshouse]

Contract farming will be all loss now for farmer and contractor.i really can’t see how it can continue.I’m sure a lot of contractors will walk away from it aswell.anyone given it up yet.
nick…

But that would mean selling the shiny toys?

 

[nick...]

But that would mean selling the shiny toys?

Difficult one as I’m guessing most new stuff on finance anyway.
nick…

 

[D14]

So essentially, you would want the contractor to put in a very low contractors charge, you take a rental equivalent as a farmers first charge, then the contractor gets everything thats left over?

Yep thats how 90% of cfa's work

 

[D14]

Would his farm still qualify for the APR/ IHT relief?

Why not. He's in an approved agrivultural greening scheme specifically for farmers and landowners. He still has to manage it such as top it and spray it.

 

[ajd132]

Yep thats how 90% of cfa's work

I think 90% is a massive exaggeration

 

[D14]

I think 90% is a massive exaggeration

Not so sure. The ones I have been involved in set up by agents were a sham right from the start. Once the agent knew I could be trusted then they just came out and said this is what the landowner wants. Then as already mentioned a nationwide land agency told me the exact same thing and they were the ones who quoted 90%. I am not going to name them but lets just say theres only a handful of large scale agents in the this country.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Not so sure. The ones I have been involved in set up by agents were a sham right from the start. Once the agent knew I could be trusted then they just came out and said this is what the landowner wants. Then as already mentioned a nationwide land agency told me the exact same thing and they were the ones who quoted 90%. I am not going to name them but lets just say theres only a handful of large scale agents in the this country.

I've never run one, and only looked into setting up a couple. But that's my experience also. It's disguised rent to allow the landowner to still claim BPS and tax relief.