CF Fertilisers

[Bongodog]

The shelf life has no bearing at all, it's the cost of production of the fertiliser, it does not suddenly become cheaper to produce now if you then sell it months further down the line at a saleable price

What I am saying is that as fertiliser has a long shelf life and is easy to store there is plenty sitting around hence no need to produce it when gas is expensive, meanwhile its the byproduct CO2 we do need.

 

[Nearly]

So am I right in thinking that the CO2 that is captured in the process of making fertiliser is used elsewhere and released into the atmosphere and them the farmer gets the blame for global warming?

Sounds like a 'Yes Minister' plot for 2021 relaunch.

 

[glasshouse]

It does, pipeline comes south through our farm.

I’ve a cousin who’s an armed response officer in the Met. In the week running up to the 2014 independence referendum he was sent up to the St Fergus terminal on a “training” exercise with an envelope to be opened in the event of a yes vote.

What was in the envelope?
Semtex?

 

[glasshouse]

No surprise there.

@glasshouse will be weeping over his copy of Das Kapital about that.

You lost me there

 

[JP1]

Radio reporting that Gov CF cap assurance was only for two weeks. How will that pan out ?

 

[warksfarmer]

If as a pig farmer you had the opportunity to switch off production now and sell your feed wheat back into the market at a profit rather than chase a loss you would do it in a heartbeat. CF no different. They would be lumbered with expensively made fertiliser with no one willing to pay the price to buy it. Putin has put the squeeze on gas through Ukraine to force Europe and US to give approval to Nordstream 2 line through the Baltic.
What is worse is that wee Burnie in Holyrood numptyville and her green #ssed pals intend to leave gas we could exploit in the North Sea and West of Shetland in the ground. Deficit of 13 billion and last year 27 billion so we definitely don't need the income. I am preparing my campervan for Portuguese and Canaries winters. In the meantime my 4 generators will be worth at least double what I paid for them. Stock up on petrol for the winter boys and gals as no power no pumps at fuel stations.

So a business the size of CF is not buying its gas 12 or 6 months in advance? And you don’t think they’ve sold that gas supply on at a massive profit and then shut down their business pleading povety whilst pushing prices of their own products. Now they’ve been given a 3 week bale out by the government, so they’ll produce and then push prices of fert further.

It stinks.

 

[Hindsight]

Maybe the government could simply remit all Dec1st BPS money direct to CF. That would solve the issue.

 

[Sid]

Maybe the government could simply remit all Dec1st BPS money direct to CF. That would solve the issue.

Not mine thank you very much!

 

[redsloe]

Maybe the government could simply remit all Dec1st BPS money direct to CF. That would solve the issue.

Hmm, but what would CF do with all that waste product?

 

[fieldfarmer]

Maybe the government could simply remit all Dec1st BPS money direct to CF. That would solve the issue.

Considering they pay very few on December 1st, most paid way after that date I don't think that will solve much.

 

[oil barron]

The other fishy part is all the media stories around CF and also the home gas suppliers going bust is the media talking of unprecedented gas prices and backing it up with a chart going back 2 years at the most. If you look at the 10 year they are not out of the ordinary.

 

[Exfarmer]

The other fishy part is all the media stories around CF and also the home gas suppliers going bust is the media talking of unprecedented gas prices and backing it up with a chart going back 2 years at the most. If you look at the 10 year they are not out of the ordinary. View attachment 987142View attachment 987143

dont forget to factor in the exchange rate. which has made the graph far worse today, as that is priced in dollars. today the pound is only worth 80% of what it was in 2014

 

[Steevo]

Given that of the 5 major CO2 producing plants, two are fertiliser and two are ethanol plants......it does seem that without agricultural produce (domestic or imported) we'd be a bit stuck for CO2.

Surprised me that...!

 

[beltbreaker]

The other fishy part is all the media stories around CF and also the home gas suppliers going bust is the media talking of unprecedented gas prices and backing it up with a chart going back 2 years at the most. If you look at the 10 year they are not out of the ordinary. View attachment 987142View attachment 987143

No one picking up on this although it looks to be heading diwn, what was AN in 2012 £300 ish. It's a clusterfeck CF triple are dipping
1. Selling gas futures pocketing profit
2. Pocketing government subsidy
3. Profiteering from sales of fert


And then extracting profits from UK back to US shareholders

Good work if you can get it, be interesting to see what happens in 3 weeks when sub stops.

 

[HatsOff]

There have been gas price 'crises' in the past of course.

Today we don't have much storage, which means spikes are felt more immediately

 

[jondear]

No one picking up on this although it looks to be heading diwn, what was AN in 2012 £300 ish. It's a clusterfeck CF triple are dipping
1. Selling gas futures pocketing profit
2. Pocketing government subsidy
3. Profiteering from sales of fert


And then extracting profits from UK back to US shareholders

Good work if you can get it, be interesting to see what happens in 3 weeks when sub stops.

And USA stalling on trade deals with Boris while he's on a Jolly in States!

 

[Bramble]

So it looks like CF get enough of a handout to cover their operating costs for 3 weeks, while the CO2 market adjusts to the ‘new normal’. CF are looking to push the price of CO2 up from £200/t to £1000/t by the end of this period to make production sustainable.

Almost makes the fertiliser a waste product!!

 

[Still Farming]

How can they still shove prices up when Government bailed them out?
Bet they got shareholders too???

 

[Still Farming]

Worth 15.13 billion in 2016????

 

[Half Pipe]

Does this now mean fert has a lower carbon foot print when it comes to ag calculations!?