sheep breeder
Member
anybody going to the sale, are you buying or selling.
Charollais sale in worchester
- Thread starter sheep breeder
- Start date
Joe
Member
- Location
- Carlow Ireland
Going this year, first time. Aim is to keep hands in pocket, more of a weekend away for myself and brother in law who works on the farm after a difficult year as a bit of a thank you tbh.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I've got 3 entered, but got a silly cr*p draw and struggling to summon up much enthusiasm at the moment. My first lamb certainly won't be given away, and with my place in the sale, I'll likely be using him myself instead.
I'll definitely be there on Saturday though, whether my sheep are or not.
I'll definitely be there on Saturday though, whether my sheep are or not.
Joe
Member
- Location
- Carlow Ireland
I've got 3 entered, but got a silly cr*p draw and struggling to summon up much enthusiasm at the moment. My first lamb certainly won't be given away, and with my place in the sale, I'll likely be using him myself instead.
I'll definitely be there on Saturday though, whether my sheep are or not.
Any pics
If youre not to busy Friday or Saturday will introduce myself, would be nice to put a face to the name...Id watch buying a tup at that sale, I bought lamb there that was infertile last year due to his liver being ruined after being feed to much protein when he was young lamb. And I wouldn't believe the front of the catalogue either there not fully fertility guaranteed.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
wrong mentality of many sellers at worcester , doubt many have been off ad lib pellet since christmas ,no doubt they all look the part , The last place i would buy a ram , im afraid .But i hope they have a good day .
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I don't sell at Society sales other than still having a dabble at Worcester, but there is a fertility guarantee in all sales held under Society rules, as well as an inspection regime to remove anything that is functionally wrong in teeth, testicles or legs.
If any ram is proven infertile after being given a fair go (not over artificially induced ewes, out of season), then there is recourse through the society, should the vendor choose to be a tw*t.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Agreed (but they've certainly not all been on ad-lib since Christmas
). However, it is the only place to pull together most flocks 'first draw' of ram lambs. They certainly need a 'gentle descent' to normal management IME, but as long as you bear that in mind (not that you should have to).... Unfortunately, I know of nowhere else where I could select from such a wide variety of genetics (& assess what different flocks are up to), good or bad. It never ceases to amaze me how lambs that never get a bid at Worcester, can generate such excitement when dropped into Builth, given that same hard feeding regime, but for an extra 3 months.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
Agreed (but they've certainly not all been on ad-lib since Christmas
It never ceases to amaze me how lambs that never get a bid at Worcester, can generate such excitement when dropped into Builth, given that same hard feeding regime, but for an extra 3 months.
yea i have heard all that before , think the sellers all tell themselves that so the issue goes away , and it shouldnt be the case , unfortunately everyone has lost touch with reality , many are selling rams but prefer to use AI themselves , if more of them bought a ram or two each they might realise what non functioning stuff they were breeding .and standards might rise , The genetics are probably quite good , but would you be happy to turn most out wih 100 ewes ? like some commercial men have done
, and how many would be finished @40kg on old perm pasture ?I am very saddened by this sale , ram lambs that are too fat , too big , 100kg no rumen (engine) ultimately for the commercial world which is where the genetics end up ,
For the first time ever in 30 years , i didnt even read the catalogue .I would love to go and see the sparkling new kids on the block and feel if i bought it could live a happy and long life here on mendip , But i know i would have to spend the next 12 months nursing it through the first winter , We all saw what happened to the suffolk at edinburgh ,
To the breed i would say , wake up and smell the coffee (not pointed at you of course neil ) the future is low maintenance, easy finish lamb produced at low cost ,. some of the newer breeds on the block have already spotted this @Tim W @easyram1 and innovis , just get a bit more shape and watch out
Last edited:
sheepwise
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
Hope to be there.Bought a tup lamb last year which has done very well for us so not intending buying this time.
pauld
Member
- Location
- Pershore Worcestershire
Have bought many there over the years. Plenty of choice and once breeders have had their pick there will be plenty at commercial prices . Its an early sale so plenty of time to get them home and acclimatise them - I do accept all that is said about feeding but I have several now coming up to their sixth year of use.
sheepwise
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
Totally agree a lot of good sheep end up selling at pretty poor commercial prices at all the early breed sales.It is always difficult to get commercial buyers to buy tups before they actually need them to be working.However, there are a few astute buyers who do attend these sales and pick up an odd sheep which could cost a lot more money at a sale nearer the breeding season.In most cases a buyer is getting the choice of what the vendors genuinely believe to be the pick of their lamb crop (or at least their early born lambs).The breeders sales always need to be early enough to allow the pedigree buyers to be able to use their new purchases at the start of the breeding season.Personally I think the Charollais society made a mistake in allowing flocks to lamb from 1st December.A properly policed 1st of January date would have meant a breed sale a month later possibly with more commercial interest.
I've been told by the society that they don't want to get involved with infertile issues, and its to me and the breeder to sort it out, and since he wont speak to me or reply to my letters, theres nothing I can do he thinks I over worked him turning him out with 15 ewes!!. I also found out that I'm not the only one in the last few years to have a tup of this man bought at this sale that's infertile due to overfeeding. And the society know about it and still allow him to sell every year.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Well what do you expect, turning him out with so many ewes?
I presume you have a vet certificate to back you up on his fertility? If so, if you can't get anywhere by other means, perhaps a solicitors letter might kick his arse enough to sort it out? You shouldn't have to though, and sheep sold under Society rules will be covered by the fertility guarantee in the member's handbook. http://www.charollaissheep.com/members/handbook/
The complaint does need to have been lodged in a set timescale, not that there should be any need if the breeder was sensible.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
Well what do you expect, turning him out with so many ewes?
I presume you have a vet certificate to back you up on his fertility? If so, if you can't get anywhere by other means, perhaps a solicitors letter might kick his arse enough to sort it out? You shouldn't have to though, and sheep sold under Society rules will be covered by the fertility guarantee in the member's handbook. http://www.charollaissheep.com/members/handbook/
The complaint does need to have been lodged in a set timescale, not that there should be any need if the breeder was sensible.
yes pages 15 / 16 and i would make a fuss, if all conditions are met .breeder should have sorted this immediately.
I expect the answer is 'how long is a piece of string' but as a ball park figure, what price would a decent ram fetch - not a prize-winner but a good, nothing-fancy, commercial-stock type ram? I'm very impressed with the lambs produced from the 2 Charollais rams I put to our mules (3/4 of the first lambs to market are from these guys) and plan to ditch the Suffolk rams from our flock and replace with Charollais.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
The upset (minimum selling) price at this sale is 350gns for ram lambs and 500gns for shearlings. A lot of those that aren't fancied by pedigree breeders will be sold at that money or not much more.
(I suspect I'll get a b*ll*cking but) I would certainly not recommend it as a place to buy crossing rams though. Go directly to a breeder on farm and see what system they've been produced under. Most of the auction sales have turned into an ever more competitive feeding competition IMO.
I was just outside the 3 months to make a claim, sadly I didn't turn him out the night I bought him, so the auction company cant do anything. The society aren't interested, I did go and see a lawyer but its going to cost twice the cost of the tup to take it to court. I have a vets report but it useless as the breeder is just ignoring the situation. As he knows theres not much I can do about it
Lazy Larry
Member
I bought a share in a Tup lamb at Worcester two years ago , I was pleasantly surprised how amazingly active and fertile he was and how he lost no condition . We sold him on after using him again last year and got more than we paid for him.
We bought a Tup Lamb in Builth , we thought we had got the pick of the sale in our humble opinion , he turned out a miserable bugger when he was without his cake, we never used him and sold him at a hefty loss, we done a bit of homework and realised he was unsold at Worcester so I second what Neilo said.
- Location
- N.Lincs
I just can't understand why a regular tup vendor would walk away from an infertility issue like this
.FFS how does he think he's going to be able to keep selling if he keeps treating customers like that.
Maybe I'm too soft for giving a replacement with no questions asked - only had to do it twice and one of those "infertile" tups has progeny registered in the flock book