CMG/ Openfield pool marketing question

[SilliamWhale]

I can't seem to find the info on what i want from a search.

Anyway - I'm crap at selling my grain etc. and for oilseeds and beans I'm a fair distance from the premium markets so I quite fancy joining CMG whom employ Openfield (I think?) to do it for me. I get the concept that the pool maybe never hits the heights but I think I bump along the bottom a little too often in my sales because the old man is anti forward selling and then in September I lose my nerve because I realise nothings been sold and the price is heading south etc.

So any comments? The pool seems a decent compromise. The CMG man told me that if we had a 2012 again and not enough grain there is not likely to be much default etc and I understand it wouldn't bugger up cashflow any more than it does anyway.

I'll keep a little bit back for the odd local but any opinions before I sign the forms?

 

[Baling Hay]

CMG??

 

[MrNoo]

Horses for courses isn't it! I came out of Pool selling (Openfield) circa 5-7 years ago when the lady I dealt with told me that "Pools don't do well in a rising or falling market" That to me was the end.
Over the years whilst selling spot or forward my averages have been generally better than the pools, some years by quite a margin and I have been happy with my own results, sure they have not been the top price for everything every year, like some on here suggest they manage but on the whole I am happy.
Although I did f*ck up this year on the WW( feed) and sold most of it at £102 ex but I only have myself to blame……!!!
I sell most through Openfield, you can draw against what you have forward sold, transport has generally been good and they are nice peeps to deal with.
Why not do a bit with pools and a sell a bit yourself?? In this day and age, info is readily available via computers, smart phones etc etc it makes it easy to stay abreast of the latest info. I certainly don't regret coming "out" of pools although did have a "what if" moment when the price of WW rose to where it is now. Just got to accept it and concentrate on the next crop and chalk it up in my case to experience.

 

[Farmer T]

We use CMG (crop marketing group) and highly recommend them. Yup at the end of the day it's another pool but you get decide when you want to sell (via some general nudging from the CMG chappy).

No one knows where the market is ever going to go and CMG are happy to admit that.

Socially it's also good to have meet up and chat to local farmers.

 

[David.]

The problem is our thought process is always half a marketing year behind the game. By the time it becomes obvious that you need to be in a pool (like 2014 harvest pool) they have long been closed.
For example all that was available from Openfield this July was the tracker or the late season pools, neither of which carried any benefit of the April 14 price spike in them.
Then you commit to a pool for next year which is selling from a bad place in the price cycle and end up grumpy because the Oct 15 spot market looks better than half the forward sales that the pool has already made.
Wait for what looks like a historic high and sell 1/3 of next 2 harvests forward from a good place instead, seems increasingly like a good plan to me.

 

[Andrew K]

Dont forget entering a pool is a commitment that you will be expected to honour, droughty or wet, and whether or not they have mucked up the marketing!

 

[Brisel]

In the bad years like 2007 & 2012 the pools worked hard to help out the farmers who couldn't make their committed tonnage. I can't think of any whole farm pools that defaulted their growers. Openfield (Centaur) did create an A and B pool to try to ensure that those growers who did meet their commitments were treated better than those who didn't, then again in 2008 when everyone underestimated their tonnages & had extra to sell in a falling market.

Pools will hit the top or bottom of the market but should, with reasonable management, get you a good average whilst relieving you of the stress of having to read the Combinables Price Tracker thread... The clout of being part of a bigger group helps when it comes to claims too.

 

[Derky]

We use to use Unicorn in CMG, it never hit the top or the bottom but took out some risk. Now I tend to sell it spot and forward. Not for everyone but good for many.

 

[Renaultman]

We use to use Unicorn in CMG, it never hit the top or the bottom but took out some risk. Now I tend to sell it spot and forward. Not for everyone but good for many.

This for me too. I think it's something you have to enjoy doing though. The combinables price thread on here is great to keep an eye on markets and some, often, excellent advice. I probably do better than the pools when you get their handling charge, and probably a lot better if I followed my gut more often, but I really can't afford to take the big risks that that would require.

 

[Wiltshire Bob]

Lots of companies offer pools, in todays volatile markets it takes some risk out of forward selling, as the merchant may sell when you might not, All grain merchants have no idea what the market is going to do next, so what hope do famers have? Farmers can't spend all of their time grain marketing, but merchants can. Have a shop around on pools, try and discover the pool history of each company and then make a decision. you should get a good average result.

 

[MrNoo]

as the merchant may sell when you might not

That for me was the problem……!

 

[Honest john]

I thought it strange that a co op was ringing texting to buy spot wheat all grades when there stores where full. At a time the trade were talking the job down.

Now that it's moved on £15+ they are only buyers of GP 1.

So they do have a fair idea what is going to happen !

As I say at the time every one in trade was talking price down.

 

[Condi]

Pools will generally give you an average price. Nobody knows what will happen, and so no pool manager will sell too much at once in case for whatever reason it runs away.

A good pool manager might use options to provide some upward profit, although I dont think they are used en mass.

 

[Brisel]

We use to use Unicorn in CMG, it never hit the top or the bottom but took out some risk. Now I tend to sell it spot and forward. Not for everyone but good for many.

What is Unicorn?

 

[Derky]

CMG is made up of lots of little regional pool groups of which Unicorn is one of them.

 

[Brisel]

CMG is made up of lots of little regional pool groups of which Unicorn is one of them.

Thank you. How big is your regional group in terms of tonnage and who influences selling decisions i.e. Is there producer representation on the board?

I ask because the boss is looking at outsourcing the marketing for both farms in the group I work for & something like this would be of interest.

 

[Derky]

There is a board of farmers along with some open field staff. Tonnage wise im not sure, but if I wasn't involved in the grain storage and had my eyes on the markets day in day out I would do it all through them.

 

[snarling bee]

I am a member and committee member of one of the CMG groups. We market well over 30,000 tonnes of grain a year. The total CMG tonnage would be far in excess of 100,000 tonnes (might be double that). It is all marketed with bad debt insurance and with the option of money up front.
Pool marketing is not for everybody, but some members commit their whole tonnage, most probably less than half. I am in the latter category, but it does give a good average price on some sales allowing me to gamble ('cos that's what it is) on the rest. I find it useful for my contract customers who do not have a big enough tonnage to sensibly have their 'own' pool.
They also now run a fertiliser buying pool.

Please pm me if you want more info or contact numbers etc.

 

[FARMERJERRY]

Depending on where in Dorset you are..there is Westcountry Grain based in Cannington Somerset. Similar structures as the CMG groups. does 170000 tonnes marketed in the Southwest a mix of ex-farm and Central Store tonnage. uses openfield as Marketing Agent. they have the same options of pools, spot and advanced sales .overseen by farmer board who work with a dedicated marketing agent to advise on selling strategy. I am on the board so pm me for more info if you want.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I am a member and committee member of one of the CMG groups. We market well over 30,000 tonnes of grain a year. The total CMG tonnage would be far in excess of 100,000 tonnes (might be double that). It is all marketed with bad debt insurance and with the option of money up front.
Pool marketing is not for everybody, but some members commit their whole tonnage, most probably less than half. I am in the latter category, but it does give a good average price on some sales allowing me to gamble ('cos that's what it is) on the rest. I find it useful for my contract customers who do not have a big enough tonnage to sensibly have their 'own' pool.
They also now run a fertiliser buying pool.

Please pm me if you want more info or contact numbers etc.

Depending on where in Dorset you are..there is Westcountry Grain based in Cannington Somerset. Similar structures as the CMG groups. does 170000 tonnes marketed in the Southwest a mix of ex-farm and Central Store tonnage. uses openfield as Marketing Agent. they have the same options of pools, spot and advanced sales .overseen by farmer board who work with a dedicated marketing agent to advise on selling strategy. I am on the board so pm me for more info if you want.

Thanks. I've had Ted Bird down with a chat. I think I'm minded to join the pool and treat that as my % of forward sold crops for the year and keep some back for spot prices.