Colostrum and calving systems

[Dead Rabbits]

Don’t have a colostrum program, calf stays with cow 12 hours, misses a feed and then is fed with best colostrum for 3 days and then put onto machine. Vet told me I was doing it all wrong so test calves that hasn’t been bagged and then bagged calves for a week and there was no difference in immunoglobulin levels, when there’s 25 cows a day calving you simply don’t have time to be running round with colostrum

This is the system I would like to be closer to, the cows doing the work. Sounds simple and effective. However the conditions do dictate that we snatch calve. I think the root of all issues here is cow health. As you say, the minerals and cow health have to be there for a calf that really wants to live and thrive. Seeing cows quit pushing and getting tired quickly, as well as thick sacks. Also calves slow to walk/stand. I associate that with selenium and iodine deficiencies.

As for the logistics of what you are doing I couldn't see that working here. A normal day is at least 20 calves, with a max of 45 so far. Our calving groups are going to be 400+ cows for some time. Have been at 700.

For illustrative purposes, this is what the calving pasture looked like this morning.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

We find these crossbred things are soon up and at it. I rarely bag anything. We lift calves once a day after lunch and milk the fresh cows first. Every calf is offered the chance to drink, and most do. If they don't we assess how full they are and bag if necessary/if they are particularly dopey. Like you we've blood tested for antibodies and always had good levels. If it ain't broke....

Back to the OP, I also keep some good colostrum back in a lidded bucket. In February it's as cold as a fridge outside anyway so I don't think bacteria is growing very quickly. On the odd occasion I need some between milkings I'll warm it by putting a bucket inside another with hot water in and monitoring the temp till it's warm enough.

In your situation I wouldn't try to change to much too quickly but I'd insist on colostrum being warmed before feeding and giving it within 6 hours. (Unless your 12 hours includes time on the cow in which case I'd be less worried)

Can you get the calves blood tested to check for antibody transfer? Has to be under 7 days I think.

I think what really set us back was having too many heifers calve in first. We got behind on colostrum and have not caught up. We only use colostrum from the first milking as a first feed. The rest is fed to all calves on farm. So we are constantly almost out of colostrum. Not really within my power to change procedures, but I am sure as hell trying.

I would like to blood test so that everyone can see the importance of the colostrum, but I doubt it will happen. Having a hard time getting the message to everyone that the colostrum needs to be warm, and preferably in the calf within two hours.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Lots of system work, even imperfect ones. My view is firstly are you seeing problems in calves and second do some bloods to see how well you are doing.

I'm a fan of tubing as the job is done. 10% of bodyweight. As soon as possible but absolutely in 6 hours. Ideally mum's milk. If you get the first feed right what you do afterwards doesn't matter, but I'd not advocate feeding pooled colostrum.

Yes we are seeing problems in the calves. From just born up to a couple of weeks old. I see it as a combination of poor cow health and poor procedure. The challenge is making a convincing argument to management and coming up with a more streamlined/labor efficient procedure. There are only so many hours in a day.

As for pooled feeding of colostrum, that's the only way it's going to happen. It's not ideal, but neither is tubing in my opinion.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

My protocol was.

All colostrum tested with digital tester. Over 22 used for first feed heifer calves. Under 22 for bulls and second feed for heifers.

Perfect udder colostrum bags. All colostrum frozen unless fed straight away.

Heifers get 4lt of high colostrum straight away plus 4lt of low colostrum next feed. Bulls get 1 feed of colostrum. All tube fed.

In the end we ended up with more high colostrum so could feed more. If getting heaps of low colostrum, look for dry cow problems.

Probably how things should be here, given our constraints. How were your groups of cows set up? Dedicated calf feeder? What kind of numbers?

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Well the ones that don’t get up don’t make it and we now have a herd where all the calves get up and drink no problem, out of 700 carvings last year we only assisted 7 and less than 1% of calves died after leaving the straw yard.

Cow nutrition and mineral status plays a big if not bigger part on the calves

Impressive. That's the kind of herd I am familiar with. The calves come out running and find their own food. If they do that then you know your cows are right. Having healthy cows is very labor efficient.

 

[multi power]

@Dead Rabbits sounds like you are having a real struggle, and yes healthy cows are so much more efficient, and a pleasure to work with too
As for your calving paddock in snow what are the cows eating?

 

[Dead Rabbits]

@Dead Rabbits sounds like you are having a real struggle, and yes healthy cows are so much more efficient, and a pleasure to work with too
As for your calving paddock in snow what are the cows eating?

We'll say it's not ideal.

We run the dry cow groups up to the feeding floor to eat their ration. Silage, straw, commodities, mineral.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Any Johnes, before colostrum is carted here there and everywhere?

Most likely. Have never tested for it to my knowledge. Plenty of staph though

 

[meekers]

I have just looked at our colostrum protocol and installed the coloquick system which pasteurises/thaws colostrum. I’m wondering how everyone gets on milking freshly calved cows? I struggle to get cows that have just calved to let their milk down. Only getting about 2-3 litres out of them at this stage. It is fine maybe 20 hours later but by then colostrum isn’t testing as well. Do you use oxytocin? Or perhaps it’s because I am trying to milk them in the calving shed with a mobile unit. Maybe I will have to take them to the parlour? Any thoughts? I am struggling to get enough colostrum to keep me going with current calvings. I’d ideally like to create a bank of frozen stuff.

 

[zyklon]

This past few months our cows are the same. Calving Shed/parlour made no difference. Lucky to get 3-4 litres. Every cow gets calcium now when they calve which helps but I’m putting it down to poor dry cow management somewhere in the chain.

 

[jimmer]

An extra percent of protein in dry cow diet ought to do the trick

 

[meekers]

I’m really not keen to start messing with the transition diet. It’s not a case that’s the freshly calved cows don’t have milk- my 30 to 100 DIM’s are averaging 47kgs. It just the initial hour that’s the problem. I’ve never milked them in the calving shed before my colostrum management over haul. One thing that is surprising me is how quickly the quality of the colostrum tails off.

 

[organicguy]

I’m really not keen to start messing with the transition diet. It’s not a case that’s the freshly calved cows don’t have milk- my 30 to 100 DIM’s are averaging 47kgs. It just the initial hour that’s the problem. I’ve never milked them in the calving shed before my colostrum management over haul. One thing that is surprising me is how quickly the quality of the colostrum tails off.

Is that because the calf has suckled and you are getting the next lot?

 

[Clay52]

This past few months our cows are the same. Calving Shed/parlour made no difference. Lucky to get 3-4 litres. Every cow gets calcium now when they calve which helps but I’m putting it down to poor dry cow management somewhere in the chain.

Giving fresh cows calcium that are not showing any milk fever symptoms can make them worse. It spikes their blood calcium and causes them to downregulate they own calcium systems and hinders them in the medium term.

Need to get that calcium balance sorted in the dry cow period.

 

[Pigken]

I have just looked at our colostrum protocol and installed the coloquick system which pasteurises/thaws colostrum. I’m wondering how everyone gets on milking freshly calved cows? I struggle to get cows that have just calved to let their milk down. Only getting about 2-3 litres out of them at this stage. It is fine maybe 20 hours later but by then colostrum isn’t testing as well. Do you use oxytocin? Or perhaps it’s because I am trying to milk them in the calving shed with a mobile unit. Maybe I will have to take them to the parlour? Any thoughts? I am struggling to get enough colostrum to keep me going with current calvings. I’d ideally like to create a bank of frozen stuff.

Coloquick system really good if used properly, expensive but pays for itself in time. Why not just put cow in parlour at next milking, can use velcrow leg bands, put 2 on, take one off after 1st milking pre calving and 2nd band off after 2nd milking, not all 2nd milking colostrum good but surprising how much is good quality to use for bull/beef calves also builds supplies up, depends how on testing protocol

 

[Spudley]

We have a mobile milker in the calving pens, anything that calves before midnight is milked in the pen and the calf is tubed with whatever I get off. Cows calving in the night get in the parlour first in the morning. All calves tubed 3 times, I try to get 10 litres into them, skip a feed then onto a teat feeder in a small pen of baby calves. Once they suck they are in group pens up to 12 calves, stay in same group until weaning. Calves have own mothers colostrum for the three feeds, after that it's pooled yogurt which is milk from the 4th to 8th milking.

 

[som farmer]

x bred cows calving in the right condition , seem to have calves that want to suck, now only tube if were not sure a calf has sucked. usually try to get hfr calves tubed asap, not sure it happens all the time ! but we have lost less than 2% calves born alive up to 12 weeks, as someone said if it aint broke don't mess.

 

[Sparkymark]

Protocol here is calves get 3 feeds colostrum, miss a feed then teach onto milk powder from teat bucket on the next feed. Never have any problem drinkers.
Heifers and second calvers no calcium
3rd calvers and older get a bottle
Older baggy cows, long term drys or twin calvers get a bottle + calcium bolus on calving.

 

[Grassman247]

Protocol here is calves feed themselves. My vet argued about the IGG levels so I changed it for a week and tested those calves that all got bagged when calving and there was no difference, apart from calves that had a sore throat and didn’t want to drink. I really believe you can breed calves that want to get up and drink. We lost 2 out of 310 born in the autumn.

 

[Dairyfarmerswife]

Protocol here is calves feed themselves.

Here too. We've done the blood tests too and always had good levels. I rarely tube a calf and generally those that don't suck have drunk from mum. Haven't got the figures to hand but I would say 2 or 3 would be all the calves I lose out of 300 too. I didn't use antibiotics on a single heifer last year.