Combine and tractor replacement policy

[ace]

We are going to run a 8900 Claas cutting 1800ha a season over a range of crop types, changing from two Axial Flows to one combine. Got a good drier/handling system (5% @ 93t/hr) in place to cut an hour earlier and later to maximise days. Cuts out a labour unit, we would normally dry grain anyway, allows more time for autumn preparation work to be done.

Good luck.We have a similar plan. We have a 760 and a 8900 and believe that the 8900 will do the lot. It is about costs but also having focus. Better and quicker servicing,earlier starts,slick logistics etc

 

[Johnnyboxer]

Dealers must be getting worried about lack of money to allow customers to purchase new machines.where will it all stop
nick...

I think there will be some changes
Machinery prices and complexity cannot keep going on at this upward pace

 

[Renaultman]

In the 90's used to buy tractors new, keep them 4yrs (3500-4000hrs) then swap for new again. (For under £20k)

Then we had a period of expansion, where we kept what would of been the trade in, and bought a second hand extra tractor for about the same as the 'change to new' figure.
Smaller older tractors all the while step down the line but generally stay for smaller jobs/convenience/cheapness (or sentimentality!)
More recently, (last 5yrs) I've replaced:
A 12yo 7480 with 12600hrs for a 3yo 7618 with 1500hrs (and 2yrs warranty)
A 1996 6180 (lost to fire) for a 7yo 6480 with 2700hrs
A 2013 7620 with 7600hrs for a 2.5yo 7720 with 1200hrs(from the same home as the 7618) also with warranty remaining.
Replaced a sporadic hire tractor with a 15yo 10,000hr 7490 that had spent the last 4000hrs sat on a slurry pump. Bought partly for extra capacity, partly backup.

At the present moment I can't see how we can justify new tractors, unless second hand ones become either hard to source or near new money.

Forklifts - we have three:
TM320s - bought new to replace a 12000hr 15yo TM300 that itself was bought new. Main workhorse - plan to keep it 10yrs+
2012 536/70 bought at 5yo/5000hrs, now done 7600hrs. Probably keep it another year or so then look for a second hand replacement.
530/70 20yo, here from 2yo. Did it's engine up last year, don't plan to change it any time soon.

Combine policy - buy at 10yo, keep it another 10yrs unless workload increases significantly

Potato harvester last two have been bought at 1-2yo, kept 7yrs.

Smaller machines (financially) are a mix of new and second hand, generally kept a long time.

Usually finance anything over £10k, unless we've had a good year, or sold several old things for one replacement - doing that allows us to upgrade more things at a time.

Periodically, I update my fixed asset register (that focuses the mind on depreciation!)
This time I listed out things and allocated them to the crops on which they are used, and divided by the area of each crop, as a means to calculate roi. Enlightening. Frightening!!

Only thing I have bought new recently is a tipping trailer and a sprayer.
Reasoning being, I couldn't find a top spec tipping trailer at suitable discount to new and wanted air brakes, commercial axles and lgp tyres etc. Hopefully it will last a lot of years.
A sprayer, 4 years ago, almost to the day, will be changing that soon again for new.
I hire a tractor for harvest, my sprayer tractor is 2004 and I have had it for almost 9 years, with no desire to change TM155 I changed another TM155 for a T7 235 (2015) to do the road work, pull the new, to me, 4m Vaddy.
Combine is 1994 TX65 I will keep her going as long as I can.

 

[Brisel]

What do you do in second wheats... or in DD situation?

Second wheats - stale seedbed & glyphosate pre drilling, or plough. Wheat volunteers in a wheat crop aren't a massive issue other than disease carryover.
DD - you will need to be treating volunteers sooner.

 

[Two Tone]

You're talking about chopping. I was talking about swathing, and the nice green lines that grow where the swaths were. 1% loss would mean the grains were touching one another with a 35 foot header & many wouldn't think that was acceptable even though the value of the retained grain was far less than a bigger machine.

If you are limited by hp, there's a debate to be had about swathing the straw for quicker cutting progress, or leaving a longer stubble, a Dual Stream cutter bar or stripper header.

Chopping would hide even out the losses by spreading better, as you said. Usually, it's straw walker or rotor losses, not sieves unless you've got the setup wrong, or have the massive output from a reduced straw input overloading the cleaning shoe.

I'll defer to @Two Tone on combine output as he understands far more about it.

No matter what type of Combine you have got, the first place to look for any grain losses isn't behind the back of it, but immediately behind the centre of the cutter bar.
If you have stripes of growing corn after it has been harvested, especially if you had chopped the straw, that header loss is most likely the cause.
Vari-feed headers will substantially reduce header losses, providing that the operator can be bothered to adjust it.

(Somebody really ought to create an algorithm that automatically, proportionately adjusts the vari-feed position to the height of the reel above the knife! However, this can change substantially depending on how fit the crop is.)

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in trying to asses the back end of any Combine's losses, unless you can asses and subtract the centre of the header losses first!

Some chaff spreaders are better than others at spreading the chaff and small grains (lights) to something close to the full width of the header. But many fail miserably to do so and will still cause green rows, because the density of the grain is still much greater than the chaff.
It either misses the chaff spreader completely or drops to the ground sooner than the chaff.

Some Combines, like my CX6 series, give us the choice of blowing/throwing the stuff that comes off the back of the sieves either out sideways or into the straw/straw chopper, which generally if chopping, gives greater momentum to the material, giving a better distribution of it.

There are a few misnomers and differences between Conventional and Rotary Combines that some people tend to forget or get wrong:
1. Most Conventional combines will generally lose more from the Straw Walkers than the Sieves, because the walkers are the limiting factor. Rotary-separators help alleviate the loss.
2. Rotary Combines are generally better at grain separation than Walkers. Except in tall 2 row Winter Barley crops, where they can struggle!

But, it so much depends on the crop, how fit and dry it is, at any one time.
To my mind the best compromise I have seen so far to get around most of these problems is the new NH CH or the Class Tucano Hybrids, both fitted with a conventional drum, but separation rotor(s) instead of walkers.


If you set the Combine and header up properly and are prepared to make adjustments throughout the day, which can mostly easily be done from the cab, other than in exceptionally difficult conditions (or Combines without a chaff spreader), you really shouldn't get green stripes

 

[Lincsman]

No matter what type of Combine you have got, the first place to look for any grain losses isn't behind the back of it, but immediately behind the centre of the cutter bar.
If you have stripes of growing corn after it has been harvested, especially if you had chopped the straw, that header loss is most likely the cause.
Vari-feed headers will substantially reduce header losses, providing that the operator can be bothered to adjust it.

(Somebody really ought to create an algorithm that automatically, proportionately adjusts the vari-feed position to the height of the reel above the knife! However, this can change substantially depending on how fit the crop is.)

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in trying to asses the back end of any Combine's losses, unless you can asses and subtract the centre of the header losses first!

Some chaff spreaders are better than others at spreading the chaff and small grains (lights) to something close to the full width of the header. But many fail miserably to do so and will still cause green rows, because the density of the grain is still much greater than the chaff.
It either misses the chaff spreader completely or drops to the ground sooner than the chaff.

Some Combines, like my CX6 series, give us the choice of blowing/throwing the stuff that comes off the back of the sieves either out sideways or into the straw/straw chopper, which generally if chopping, gives greater momentum to the material, giving a better distribution of it.

There are a few misnomers and differences between Conventional and Rotary Combines that some people tend to forget or get wrong:
1. Most Conventional combines will generally lose more from the Straw Walkers than the Sieves, because the walkers are the limiting factor. Rotary-separators help alleviate the loss.
2. Rotary Combines are generally better at grain separation than Walkers. Except in tall 2 row Winter Barley crops, where they can struggle!

But, it so much depends on the crop, how fit and dry it is, at any one time.
To my mind the best compromise I have seen so far to get around most of these problems is the new NH CH or the Class Tucano Hybrids, both fitted with a conventional drum, but separation rotor(s) instead of walkers.


If you set the Combine and header up properly and are prepared to make adjustments throughout the day, which can mostly easily be done from the cab, other than in exceptionally difficult conditions (or Combines without a chaff spreader), you really shouldn't get green stripes

They all give green stripes when you go faster than the machines optimum, which is what Claas recommend to get over a big area, and buy a smaller combine.

 

[warksfarmer]

We are going to run a 8900 Claas cutting 1800ha a season over a range of crop types, changing from two Axial Flows to one combine. Got a good drier/handling system (5% @ 93t/hr) in place to cut an hour earlier and later to maximise days. Cuts out a labour unit, we would normally dry grain anyway, allows more time for autumn preparation work to be done.

It’ll be all about losses whether you do that or not. If we find more than 5-6 grains in a hand size in the 35ft swath then the machine stops and we find out why.
Also doesn’t matter what size the combine is, none work when it’s raining.

 

[Renaultman]

Yes, but you might have enough money in the bank to replace all the lot. My three most used machines are all over 10 000 hours and I know one will let me down soon or cost a few £ but atm are still going well and getting good value for money out of them.
If something is costing more in repairs than a newer one would in depreciation or not getting the work done on time it will be changed. If not I’ll keep it and the money in the bank .

My strategy is more 'if every time I take it out of the shed I'm frightened it will break down' Changed one TM155 as it had become unreliable in my opinion. I kept the newer higher houred one as have had it longer and had more confidence in it.

 

[Renaultman]

Some of the tinwork on some combines is nowhere near rotting. Old Tx's for example

I don't think it's the tin work in so much as the whole combine starts to get metal fatigue.
I loved my old 34 but it was on its second grain pan and when one of the straw chopper idler tensioner just snapped and the belt wore through the sump oil drain pipe, it was time to go. Now I have a slightly younger TX 65 and expect the same troubles at some point, shame as I now like it way more than the 34.

 

[Spud]

I don't think it's the tin work in so much as the whole combine starts to get metal fatigue.
I loved my old 34 but it was on its second grain pan and when one of the straw chopper idler tensioner just snapped and the belt wore through the sump oil drain pipe, it was time to go. Now I have a slightly younger TX 65 and expect the same troubles at some point, shame as I now like it way more than the 34.

Keep an eye out for a nice CX760, streets ahead

 

[Renaultman]

Keep an eye out for a nice CX760, streets ahead

Spent my money on a sprayer, drill and tractor really worried about the age of my combine and drier but will have to Molly coddle them a while longer. As someone said, if you fail to invest for a number of years you end up with a lot of aging machinery, this is a hole I am trying to get out of. I don't think it will ever happen without a huge amount of finance but having been there with the wagons, it's not a route I really want to repeat.
Although it gave me a good living for a lot of years it was hard work.

 

[bankrupt]

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in trying to assess the back end of any Combine's losses, unless you can assess and subtract the centre of the header losses first!

Even more important is to assess what header losses will be tomorrow or next week before deciding to slow down today.

 

[Tom H]

We are going to run a 8900 Claas cutting 1800ha a season over a range of crop types, changing from two Axial Flows to one combine. Got a good drier/handling system (5% @ 93t/hr) in place to cut an hour earlier and later to maximise days. Cuts out a labour unit, we would normally dry grain anyway, allows more time for autumn preparation work to be done.

We are planning to also try and get 1950ha through a 8900. We test for losses regularly with the Bushel Plus drop pan, this gives a very accurate reading. anything up to 1% is allowed. We also have a very good farmer next door with a full CTF combine that will help if needed. Cost wise seems the best option at the moment.

 

[ace]

We are planning to also try and get 1950ha through a 8900. We test for losses regularly with the Bushel Plus drop pan, this gives a very accurate reading. anything up to 1% is allowed. We also have a very good farmer next door with a full CTF combine that will help if needed. Cost wise seems the best option at the moment.

Simon and Tom, How many trailers or chasers to keep it going?

 

[mountfarm]

In the 2000's replacement policies were easy. You could buy high end machinery as reasonable prices and they would halve in value over 5 years. Financed over 5 years you could then px for the newer model and costs per acre would be similar.
Today. Machines halve in 3/4 years and second hand values have not tracked.The new price has gone up astronomically, the gap has widened.
Costs per acre are up nearly £10/acre per machine replaced.This is not sustainable, yes many already know this .
There is then the con of warranties and care packages which are tieing you in for longer and making a business less flexible.You pay huge amounts of money for warranties that should not be needed.They are needed as generally they are not as solid as they used to be. I have a ckuple of machines where all of my warranty allowance is being used,for whose benefit?
Where will it lead? Discuss.

I’ve written about this before but we changed from JD to Case because of cost. Now in year 5 and no regrets at all. Nothing to do with reliability or the dealers, just purely on cost. The amount we’ve saved in repayments and finance is staggering quite frankly with each Case unit being approx £20,000 less than the JD equivalent model. Reliability is identical and drivers are happy. When we come to sell the Case’s yes they will sell for less than the JD but they have cost less in the first place and more importantly we are paying less interest to the finance house on Cases compared to Deere’s.

 

[warksfarmer]

Following the doe auction the last couple of days and hardly any tractors and combines seem to have sold according to the auction site.

A sign of the times that stuffs to expensive when large numbers don’t sell at auctions.

 

[Renaultman]

Following the doe auction the last couple of days and hardly any tractors and combines seem to have sold according to the auction site.

A sign of the times that stuffs to expensive when large numbers don’t sell at auctions.

My gut feeling is, it's only going one way

 

[warksfarmer]

My gut feeling is, it's only going one way

Yep and as I’ve been saying for a while ELMS is going to take half of every farm out of production when wheat returns to £100/t.

Retirement looms.

 

[Renaultman]

Yep and as I’ve been saying for a while ELMS is going to take half of every farm out of production when wheats returns to £100/t.

Retirement looms.

It's nice to be at the stage of my life where that's a possibility.
Something will turn up though, it always does.

 

[Spud]

Yep and as I’ve been saying for a while ELMS is going to take half of every farm out of production when wheat returns to £100/t.

Retirement looms.

Nonsense, if ever I heard it.

If you think ELMS is going to deliver as much as you suggest, then you totally misunderstand it's aims.