Cover crops & seed royalties

[Brisel]

I have just filed my farm saved seed royalty returns for autumn sown crops. What is the position for farm saved crop used for covers not taken to harvest?

 

[Woodlander]

Good question. If it was wheat as a cover crop - I'm sure it was Riband

 

[franklin]

PM sent.

 

[Brisel]

PM sent.

Thanks for the PM. The basic answer is yes, we are liable for royalties regardless of whether we harvest the crop or not. There are no plans for a reform of the royalty system but the whole seed certification system is being reviewed so there may be opportunity for a royalty review within that reform. Does that sound about right, Static?

There needs to be a bit of common sense applied if we are to make our own mixtures up of a couple of crops out of our own shed then buy in some extra radish etc to mix with it. If we pay per ha then this is going to get expensive unless we adjust seed rates.

 

[franklin]

but the whole seed certification system is being reviewed so there may be opportunity for a royalty review within that reform

[edited a bit out here - static]

.... common sense

Gazing into my crystal ball, what they have said here is "we need to justify our existance, and we will do this by having a 'root-and-branch' review; do some 'bluesky thinking'; pay some bent 'advisors' a lot of money; find aspects 'not fit for purpose' but at the end of the day capitulate to the vested interests who we all hope to be employed by on a consultancy basis in the future.

The staff at the royalty place are very efficient, but the idea of paying a royalty to chuck what are essentially the indistinguishable sweepings from my shed floor onto some stubbles and destroy them a few months later is absurd. Almost as absurd as DEFRA's "what is a cover crop" madness.

 

[Brisel]

Ha ha! Nice misquote!

The BSPB haven't really had to think about cover crops before, so there will, as you say, be a bit of expensive head scratching. The BSPB's existing system based around what has been sown isn't really compatible with cover crops. Perhaps a reduced rate would be more appropriate provided it can be backed with other bought in cover crop invoices?

@Guy Smith - has the NFU discussed this much?

 

[4course]

Ha ha! Nice misquote!

The BSPB haven't really had to think about cover crops before, so there will, as you say, be a bit of expensive head scratching. The BSPB's existing system based around what has been sown isn't really compatible with cover crops. Perhaps a reduced rate would be more appropriate provided it can be backed with other bought in cover crop invoices?

@Guy Smith - has the NFU discussed this much?

it was the nfu who agreed to royalties on farm saved seed

 

[Brisel]

Good. Then they are best placed to have another discussion about them.

 

[colhonk]

Do you send your invoice too the Royalty crowd for growing your own seed at your own cost?

 

[SimonD]

Would you pay royalties for volunteers that are over wintered until spring cropping? Part of our 'cover crop' was established due to header losses as running an older type combine without Vario, then DD'd the remaining mixture.

 

[Farmer Miggins]

Seems the staff at the royalty place have already carried out their head scratching - sent out with the declaration forms:
http://www.plantbreedingmatters.com/sg_userfiles/BSPB_Plant_Breeding_Matters_Autumn_2014.pdf page 5 under Fairplay Update; Cover Crops, a reminder

 

[Badshot]

Do you think I will get a refund for the seed the slugs have eaten and so won't be harvested, or will I not have to pay royalties on the next lot of seed?

 

[Brisel]

Do you think I will get a refund for the seed the slugs have eaten and so won't be harvested, or will I not have to pay royalties on the next lot of seed?

Ask them. You can sometimes do re drills without paying further royalties.

 

[Dan Powell]

Seems the staff at the royalty place have already carried out their head scratching - sent out with the declaration forms:
http://www.plantbreedingmatters.com/sg_userfiles/BSPB_Plant_Breeding_Matters_Autumn_2014.pdf page 5 under Fairplay Update; Cover Crops, a reminder

Quoted from the above:

"COVER CROPS – A REMINDER
BSPB is reminding growers that cover
crops – such as crop protection and weed
suppression covers, green manure and
environmental scheme cover crops – are
subject to the same farm-saved seed rules
as cash crops.
Although these cover crops are not
taken to harvest, the farm-saved seed
payment is still due at the time of sowing.
Farm-saved seed used to establish
cover crops must have been originally
produced from certified seed on the
farmer’s own holding. In all circumstances,
it is illegal to use uncertified grain brought
in from another farm as seed."

This needs changing now or they will totally deter use of cover crops much to the detriment of the country's soils. It's taking the original remit of seed royalties into unintended territory - totally ridiculous.

 

[Richard III]

Quoted from the above:

"COVER CROPS – A REMINDER
BSPB is reminding growers that cover
crops – such as crop protection and weed
suppression covers, green manure and
environmental scheme cover crops – are
subject to the same farm-saved seed rules
as cash crops.
Although these cover crops are not
taken to harvest, the farm-saved seed
payment is still due at the time of sowing.
Farm-saved seed used to establish
cover crops must have been originally
produced from certified seed on the
farmer’s own holding. In all circumstances,
it is illegal to use uncertified grain brought
in from another farm as seed."

This needs changing now or they will totally deter use of cover crops much to the detriment of the country's soils. It's taking the original remit of seed royalties into unintended territory - totally ridiculous.

The way that reads, it is illegal to sow anything that has not originally been bought in as certified seed.

Will someone end up get fined for recklessly sowing an illegal cover crop, with the effect of locking up carbon dioxide in their soil and reducing nitrate and phosphate levels in water coming off fields?

Stronger words come to mind than "totally ridiculous".

 

[4course]

The way that reads, it is illegal to sow anything that has not originally been bought in as certified seed.

Will someone end up get fined for recklessly sowing an illegal cover crop, with the effect of locking up carbon dioxide in their soil and reducing nitrate and phosphate levels in water coming off fields?

Stronger words come to mind than "totally ridiculous".

nothings changed other than the likelyhood of more cover/catch crops being grown it has always been the case ever since the farm unions agreed to pay royalties on fss in the uk and why do you think the breeders are trying to go down the hybrid gm route cos you cant fss them? and you will no doubt be aware that royalties have gone from under £20 to over£80 /ton on barley but what happens if you leave the barley spread by the lexion!! and just spin some royalty paid mustard on would that pass an inspection as a cover crop

 

[dontknowanything]

Quoted from the above:

"COVER CROPS – A REMINDER
BSPB is reminding growers that cover
crops – such as crop protection and weed
suppression covers, green manure and
environmental scheme cover crops – are
subject to the same farm-saved seed rules
as cash crops.
Although these cover crops are not
taken to harvest, the farm-saved seed
payment is still due at the time of sowing.
Farm-saved seed used to establish
cover crops must have been originally
produced from certified seed on the
farmer’s own holding. In all circumstances,
it is illegal to use uncertified grain brought
in from another farm as seed."

This needs changing now or they will totally deter use of cover crops much to the detriment of the country's soils. It's taking the original remit of seed royalties into unintended territory - totally ridiculous.

I think we need a comment from @Pedders

 

[Barry]

As a seed merchant I have to say I tend to agree with you that this does seem a bit daft, if royalties are there to reward a breeder for the investment they make in creating a variety, clearly in this case if you intend to not take it to harvest then you are deliberately not utilising the genetic potential they have created. But I suspect the system doesn't exist to allow for some partial payment or non payment.

There may be stocks a merchant will sell you that they have left that they know they don't want to keep, at discount prices which may turn out to be pretty cheap.


Barry

 

[franklin]

You are free to ask defra direct. I did. They said that BSPB were right and that you have to pay up. If anyone else has been given a different answer then please speak up as going forward this needs to be clarified.

The loophole is that there exists "breeders discretion", so you ask the breeder direct if they would be fine to let you plant "their" crop in part of a cover crop mix. I paraphrase this from BSPB to me a while back "Sometimes with cover crops a concession is made at the breeders discretion but we need to be satisfied it is a cover crop and that very low seed rates are being used."

 

[Goweresque]

I think I was shouted down a while back on here for suggesting that the seed companies are greedy barstewards who are demanding payment for something that belonged to everyone in the first place.

Anyone care to change their view now?