Covid Vaccine Roll out.

[essex man]

CG REPORT 8: Understanding Definitions and Reporting of Deaths Attributed to COVID-19 in the UK - Evidence from FOI Requests - Collateral Global

Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, there has been widespread reporting of aggregate death data with little attention paid to the accuracy over the assignment of causation.

collateralglobal.org

 

[Highland Mule]

What you will see is no significant difference between 2018 and 2021 apart from hysteria

Go on then, show us your working. 2018 was the worst year since 1976, (mostly due to an ineffective flu vaccine that winter) so it’s particularly telling that you picked it rather than say 2016.

Anyway, my data shows plenty difference, and that’s backed up by acturial reporting showing life expectancy had a material drop since the start of the pandemic - but I’ll let you go first and tell us all what “no significant difference” looks like.

 

[Raider112]

Excess deaths are a measure of deaths above average, look at actual monthly death totals and combine with aging population as rendered by age standardized mortality and I defy you to come up with anything unusual.

The ONS found something unusual, I'd take their word for it before yours on balance.

 

[essex man]

Go on then, show us your working. 2018 was the worst year since 1976, (mostly due to an ineffective flu vaccine that winter) so it’s particularly telling that you picked it rather than say 2016.

Anyway, my data shows plenty difference, and that’s backed up by acturial reporting showing life expectancy had a material drop since the start of the pandemic - but I’ll let you go first and tell us all what “no significant difference” looks like.

Oh dear still failing to understand that the actual level of mortality rates/life expectancy is more important than changes year on year

 

[essex man]

The ONS found something unusual, I'd take their word for it before yours on balance.

What did they find then?
Do you know numbers of deaths and mortality rates for those months

 

[essex man]

Go on then, show us your working. 2018 was the worst year since 1976, (mostly due to an ineffective flu vaccine that winter) so it’s particularly telling that you picked it rather than say 2016.

Anyway, my data shows plenty difference, and that’s backed up by acturial reporting showing life expectancy had a material drop since the start of the pandemic - but I’ll let you go first and tell us all what “no significant difference” looks like.

The thing you do is compare bad years with bad years, hence 2018, that is how you discern if anything unusual is happening and guess what...it wasn't.

 

[Raider112]

Professor Carl Heneghan when commenting on excess deaths (I cant remember over which exact time points ) indicated that over 60 000 of the excess deaths were not covid but a huge amount of extra deaths at home and these had to be looked at in case we are in this situation again

I never said they were all Covid deaths, I never even said any were Covid deaths, just that there were 133,000 excess deaths in that period.
If I remember correctly around a third of them were in April 2000 so if I'm right a fair few of them would be due to Covid I imagine.

 

[Raider112]

What did they find then?
Do you know numbers of deaths and mortality rates for those months

They found 133,000 excess deaths, do keep up.

No I don't and I'm not interested enough to look for them, I'm just repeating their findings.

 

[oval]

I never said they were all Covid deaths, I never even said any were Covid deaths, just that there were 133,000 excess deaths in that period.
If I remember correctly around a third of them were in April 2000 so if I'm right a fair few of them would be due to Covid I imagine.

I understand that a lot think those are all covid but a large proportion are of our own making which needs focusing on so we don’t make the same mistakes next time

 

[Highland Mule]

What did they find then?
Do you know numbers of deaths and mortality rates for those months

Why don’t you tell us? You’ve claimed the numbers show nothing unusual, yet you won’t provide your “evidence” to back that claim up.

So, what was the excess death figure for 2018 year against the previous five (not the winter excess now, the whole year excess - there’s a difference) and what was the figure for 2020 (same statement)?

 

[oval]

Just a reminder that the government and their advisers were as wacko as the covid conspiracy people and caused quite a lot of excess death

 

[essex man]

Why don’t you tell us? You’ve claimed the numbers show nothing unusual, yet you won’t provide your “evidence” to back that claim up.

So, what was the excess death figure for 2018 year against the previous five (not the winter excess now, the whole year excess - there’s a difference) and what was the figure for 2020 (same statement)?

I have previously supplied all these figures, just look them up.
As previously said, no point in talking about excess deaths unless you understand the metric

 

[Highland Mule]

I have previously supplied all these figures, just look them up.
As previously said, no point in talking about excess deaths unless you understand the metric

I do understand thanks, and the data I have found (supplied by reputable sources) shows exactly the opposite of what you claim but never back up with evidence. Oh, and FYI, youtube isn’t a source.

 

[Trutti]

I understand that a lot think those are all covid but a large proportion are of our own making which needs focusing on so we don’t make the same mistakes next time

This might be helpful. There are two numbers…excess deaths and excess deaths with covid mentioned on death certificate.…one is part of the other. It then leads on to reduction in life expectancy for the last reporting period…a drop of 8 months after decades of an upward trend….something happened. I refer you to the institute of actuaries figures…easily found online. This is raw data, ie…number of deaths and age For the period. There are also forecasts which make concerning reading.

 

[Raider112]

I understand that a lot think those are all covid but a large proportion are of our own making which needs focusing on so we don’t make the same mistakes next time

I don't think anyone believes they were all covid, they were excess deaths not covid deaths. I don't think anyone is saying we did everything correctly but the numbers we are seeing now show how stupid it would have been to let it run early on. Imagine this number of cases when we had the early version of covid. Numbers of covid and non covid deaths would have been catastrophic. Plenty don't show on the death figures but are still suffering, look at Kate garraways husband or my friend in his 40s who is now trying to build his strength up more than a year later by going on long walks over a year on from catching covid. 2 of my family are in those excess deaths who didn't have covid but probably died due to the NHS restrictions and pressure, there would have been many more like that if we had ignored it.

 

[Mr Mackay]

I don't think anyone believes they were all covid, they were excess deaths not covid deaths. I don't think anyone is saying we did everything correctly but the numbers we are seeing now show how stupid it would have been to let it run early on. Imagine this number of cases when we had the early version of covid. Numbers of covid and non covid deaths would have been catastrophic. Plenty don't show on the death figures but are still suffering, look at Kate garraways husband or my friend in his 40s who is now trying to build his strength up more than a year later by going on long walks over a year on from catching covid. 2 of my family are in those excess deaths who didn't have covid but probably died due to the NHS restrictions and pressure, there would have been many more like that if we had ignored it.

I dont think any of us said it was just a cold either

 

[essex man]

I do understand thanks, and the data I have found (supplied by reputable sources) shows exactly the opposite of what you claim but never back up with evidence. Oh, and FYI, youtube isn’t a source.

Why not post it then?
And also maybe say what you think I am claiming because you always seem confused about that.

 

[oval]

I don't think anyone believes they were all covid, they were excess deaths not covid deaths. I don't think anyone is saying we did everything correctly but the numbers we are seeing now show how stupid it would have been to let it run early on. Imagine this number of cases when we had the early version of covid. Numbers of covid and non covid deaths would have been catastrophic. Plenty don't show on the death figures but are still suffering, look at Kate garraways husband or my friend in his 40s who is now trying to build his strength up more than a year later by going on long walks over a year on from catching covid. 2 of my family are in those excess deaths who didn't have covid but probably died due to the NHS restrictions and pressure, there would have been many more like that if we had ignored it.

There are plenty of the public who think they are all covid as thats all they have herd for a prolonged period of time

 

[Raider112]

There are plenty of the public who think they are all covid as thats all they have herd for a prolonged period of time

I think you are on about covid deaths? We are talking about the number of people who have died for any reason here.

 

[oval]

I think you are on about covid deaths? We are talking about the number of people who have died for any reason here.

The focus on covid has led to deaths which had nothing to do with covid this needs fully scrutinised for the future you can’t pat someone on the back for saving a covid case as someone else died who couldn’t be seen or had been scared into not seeking help it wasn’t handled well from the start