Criminal farmer gets slap on wrist.

[Cowabunga]

Thought it was pretty serious if diesel entered the skin under pressure. Suppose the cow would be culled before effects would be felt.

How much diesel do you suppose they insert in a tiny lump under the skin? I have no idea what sort of experience you have but the skin is invariably loose in that area. Probably between a tenth and a half a cc is enough to create a local pimple reaction. I used to inject my cat with that much insulin every morning under the skin of her neck and I guarantee she never felt it once.

Besides which every cow is injected twice in that area at every TB test, so if you are saying that this is a serious welfare issue, tell the powers that be and vets to stop doing it on an industrial scale annually or sooner on all farms.

 

[manhill]

Never said it was a welfare issue just curious what the effect would be on cows or humans. Vets don't inject diesel to my knowledge. Wouldn't fancy roast brisket a la diesel myself either

 

[wasted years]

Dare I say, having seen that another farmer has had to go through a 2 year ordeal at who knows how much expense and distress whilst having to continue with all the daily workload of running a farm it could even be possible that an innocent party would be very tempted to admit guilt if promised no more than a slap on the wrist and anonymity to make it all go away, principles come at a price.

I doubt many on here know who I am but I pleaded guilty to a prosecution a few years ago because I couldn't afford to lose and I lost confidence in my barrister, who changed his mind about the defence of the case ten minutes before the trial began.
The prosecution offered to drop 2 charges if I took 2, common practice apparently, so I did.
Up until the morning of the trial I hadn't realised that the prosecutions expert witness was a former employee of my local vets practice which he left 'under a cloud'.
I've said enough.

 

[Razzmatazz]

Stupid idiot, If he wanted reactors, he should have just changed his vets, such is the financial rewards , some vets are determined to find reactors or inconclusive's!

The above comments are very true

 

[endeavour]

Principles are dearly bought as is justice ,but remember corporate bodies have no true identity being guided by anonymous advisors and then decision made by committee nothing to worry about for any individual. Only those involved know the true facts but I can not comprehend the anguish of anyone falsely accused or convicted.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Hfd council recently took a case to court concerning a case of injecting 'a substance ' into the necks of cows with the intention of causing a TB reaction. They won the case but also won a 'press silence order ' so that they could protect the reputation of the agricultural industry in Herefordshire. I agree with them while I certainly don't condone the practise I do support dealing with it in as low a profile as possible. There are enough people slating our industry without us given them fuel for the fire .

 

[egbert]

I've a pal who agreed to plea bargain, and admit guilt to a lesser charge to avoid inevitable time in clink.
I don't think anyone outside the CPS thought he was guilty of either charge -
but he was warned point blank he otherwise mightn't be going home to his family on the last day of trial........

None of us know what happened in this case.
The diesel injection idea sounds pretty unlikely to me, or extremely dim witted......the chances of further infection/residue leaving obvious evidence of tampering would be too high.

Countryfile talked of slurry being used to falsify results I recall....but I've watched jabbing guns dropped to the floor, picked up again and just used straight on....having been smeared in ....well, slurry.
(We won't be letting that pass any more, having been very suspicious of some unexpected positives backalong)
How would a prosecution prove such a situation beyond reasonable doubt ?


As for comments earlier about whether different vets would or wouldn't find more/less/different results......
I've seen thousands upon thousands of tests, and can assure you that, when the pressure is on, and a reading of a single mm up or down will make a difference....decisions have to be made.
It would be naive to imagine that nothing is going on behind the eyeballs of the poor beggar holding the calipers.
A professional summed up an element of it for me once, (when an underling newby of theirs was cocking up a test badly).... 'that vet has to be able to look the farmer in the eye and tell them a animal is a reactor - or not- with complete confidence, beyond challenge' (and in this instance clearly wouldn't have been able to should there have been a problem).
I've witnessed another vet -not mine, but a very high and mighty one (in his opinion at least)- state that his practise were 'doing the test much better, and finding far more reactors'. (mind, he's an arrogant little twerp, and it reflected very well on other vets present that no-one got up and smacked him there and then)

It's easy to judge from the outside, but a lot harder when you're in close, splattered in cow muck, and the stakes are high.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

We complained about a vet 'from overseas' who said to us ..."if he didn'tt find some reactors then he wouldn't have a job" that's what we are up against.! I will quickly add that he was soon dispensed with after other complaints, the 'overseas ' vets are generally very good at TB testing . They understand what we are up against and the time it takes to do when you have so much else to be doing .

 

[roscoe erf]

principals have always been expensive

 

[michael N123]

Stupid idiot, If he wanted reactors, he should have just changed his vets, such is the financial rewards , some vets are determined to find reactors or inconclusive's!

For a disease that spreads so easily anyone round here only gets 1 reactor ?
How can the disease only affect one cow (which normally looks perfectly healthy) out of a whole herd

The whole TB thing is a farce our government stressing out about fecking badgers spending millions when all they’d have to do is put them on the general licence so they’d be classed the same as fox’s. That would be it farmers and vets would do the culls for free without worrying about Sabs and protesters

Maybe Scotland’s got the right idea don’t test but be TB free

 

[Highland Mule]

For a disease that spreads so easily anyone round here only gets 1 reactor ?
How can the disease only affect one cow (which normally looks perfectly healthy) out of a whole herd

The whole TB thing is a farce our government stressing out about fecking badgers spending millions when all they’d have to do is put them on the general licence so they’d be classed the same as fox’s. That would be it farmers and vets would do the culls for free without worrying about Sabs and protesters

Maybe Scotland’s got the right idea don’t test but be TB free

Agree on the general licence thing, but not the Scotland part - pretty sure we still test up here, but perhaps less frequently to reflect the far lower risk.

 

[egbert]

For a disease that spreads so easily anyone round here only gets 1 reactor ?
How can the disease only affect one cow (which normally looks perfectly healthy) out of a whole herd

The whole TB thing is a farce our government stressing out about fecking badgers spending millions when all they’d have to do is put them on the general licence so they’d be classed the same as fox’s. That would be it farmers and vets would do the culls for free without worrying about Sabs and protesters

Maybe Scotland’s got the right idea don’t test but be TB free

How can some only have one reactor?
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

The single beast might've been the only one which ingested the passing badgers piddle/ sniffed an infected beast over a fence.
It might be the only one which 'reacted' to the dirt on the dropped jabbing gear.
It might have been the only one who was genetically predisposed to 'react' to the jab naturally.

Cattle can and do become infective, but generally to nothing like the extent that cuddly ole brock can and does.

We're constantly bumping into 1s, 2s or 3s, from grazing across 4 parishes and 20 miles.
Youngstock away at summer pasture is the statistical highest risk for us.
Clearly it isn't endemic in my herd, or we'd get slaughterhouse cases turning up (never had one)
or continual pattern around undiscovered false negatives (looked and looked, there's never a patter like that.)

The only evident cattle to cattle case we've seen was a suckler in an otherwise clean area, who- checks revealed- had shared a round feeder the previous winter with a 2 y/o reactor who'd been away to keep the previous summer.

I imagine you might be newer to it up there....we're immersed in the wretched business down here (SW).
i hope you don't have to become as versed in the technicalities.

 

[michael N123]

How can some only have one reactor?
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

The single beast might've been the only one which ingested the passing badgers piddle/ sniffed an infected beast over a fence.
It might be the only one which 'reacted' to the dirt on the dropped jabbing gear.
It might have been the only one who was genetically predisposed to 'react' to the jab naturally.

Cattle can and do become infective, but generally to nothing like the extent that cuddling ole brock can and does.

We're constantly bumping into 1s, 2s or 3s, from grazing across 4 parishes and 20 miles.
Youngstock away at summer pasture is the statistical highest risk for us.
Clearly it isn't endemic in my herd, or we'd get slaughterhouse cases turning up (never had one)
or continual pattern around undiscovered false negatives (looked and looked, there's never a patter like that.)

The only evident cattle to cattle case we've seen was a suckler in an otherwise clean area, who- checks revealed- had shared a round feeder the previous winter with a 2 y/o reactor who'd been away to keep the previous summer.

I imagine you might be newer to it up there....we're immersed in the wretched business down here (SW).
i hope you don't have to become as versed in the technicalities.

Where new to it up here but both farms keep going in and out of zones every time for a single reactor on nearby farms

 

[egbert]

Where new to it up here but both farms keep going in and out of zones every time for a single reactor on nearby farms

sorry Michael....welcome to the one club no-one wants to be a member of. (there isn't a bar)

If nearby farms are getting singles , I'd be asking if they're bringing in cattle?
If not, it must be implanted in some wildlife somewhere local.
(a bovine false negative snotting it out would, in most commercial situations, be likely to infect numbers, rather than singles)

I would imagine APHA are over it like a rash, to stop outlying outbreaks becoming entrenched...or at least I'd bliddy well hope so.

As for Scotland....I bought a (very good) bull recently who reacted 41 days after leaving his home summat like 100 miles north of the border.
That woke APHA up!
Results to date reveal 'no visible lesions'. I haven't been told if he has tissue taken to culture anyway...I would imagine so.
In every likelihood, he either met it the minute he touched the deck in the SW (I'd dropped him on loan onto a clean farm, although the pox is very much in that parish)
they can get it, and become infective within a month.
Or he was a false positive....which would have been a rotten waste of a good beast.
Obviously, if tissue samples culture, a lot will depend on the spoligotype....IE, where he likely met it

 

[john432]

The above comments are very true

I can't or wont name, not my practise, but one group of vets in the area are interpreting any slight inconclusive lumps on the side of being reactors. Getting to the point that one of the senior partners has been told never to set foot on some farms to do routine work!
Not good when threequarters of the way through the results testing,and all clear. Farmer says, in relief, "Phew, looking good for a clear test" his vets replies " I'm sure I'll find something before we finish" That was a senior partner ,whose practise had been the farms vets for 50+ years!

 

[Razzmatazz]

I can't or wont name, not my practise, but one group of vets in the area are interpreting any slight inconclusive lumps on the side of being reactors. Getting to the point that one of the senior partners has been told never to set foot on some farms to do routine work!
Not good when threequarters of the way through the results testing,and all clear. Farmer says, in relief, "Phew, looking good for a clear test" his vets replies " I'm sure I'll find something before we finish" That was a senior partner ,whose practise had been the farms vets for 50+ years!

Ditto to all comments above. This has happened to us, appreciate that nobody can't or won't be named, we're from the same location as yourself.