Crop rotations

[Jdunn55]

Hi all looking at growing maize next year for various reasons and am trying to put together a field plan/crop rotation.

In future years will be needing 400t of maize and 220t of wholecrop of some sort.

I was assuming 15t/acre for maize which I think is more than doable. I would like to go for as early a harvest as physically possible without compromising on quality too much. Is september 15th a reasonable expected harvest date (I'm aware that things happen that could alter that for the worse but just as an assumption)? What date would it need to be drilled by (roughly) in order to achieve this?
What crops can be planted after maize? I was thinking hybrid rye for anything going back into maize the following year (is 8t per acre of rye a good yield assumption? Too much too little? And will it be ready for harvest in time for maize to go in in decent time?)
I'm fairly confident italian, perennial ryegrass and most other grass should be ok (Timothy cocksfoot, fetolololium etc) but what about legumes and herbs such as clovers, chicory, plantain etc?
I'm guessing winter corn should be fine as well.

Next question is, if you planted winter corn as early as possible could you harvest it as wholecrop early enough to put maize in afterwards?
I've grown spring wholecrop this year and last year and averaged 4t/acre, I ideally need 7-8t per acre how would I be able to do this? Can I? Ours was sown in two lots, one in March and one in April, the early one was ready in June and the Aptil sown was harvested this week.
What i grew this year had no sprays and a reduced seed rate of only 35-40kg per acre because it was undersown with grass, if I upped the seed rate to 75-80kg would that be enough to reach 7-8t alone? It also only had 20kg of Nitrogen per acre in the seed bed if this was increased (to what amount and how many times - in the seed bed and once again post emergence?) could I hit the 7-8t target?

Thankyou

 

[betweenthelines]

Grass/Maize,W Wheat/Barley/Reseed

Or follow the wholecrop with either westerwolds or stubble turnips (both of which in your area will grow all winter) before back to maize.

Perhaps a better plan would be no maize but a 3 or 4 year Clover (or lucerne) break

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

Have you looked at fodder beet instead of maize?

 

[iitc123]

Hi all looking at growing maize next year for various reasons and am trying to put together a field plan/crop rotation.

In future years will be needing 400t of maize and 220t of wholecrop of some sort.

I was assuming 15t/acre for maize which I think is more than doable. I would like to go for as early a harvest as physically possible without compromising on quality too much. Is september 15th a reasonable expected harvest date (I'm aware that things happen that could alter that for the worse but just as an assumption)? What date would it need to be drilled by (roughly) in order to achieve this?
What crops can be planted after maize? I was thinking hybrid rye for anything going back into maize the following year (is 8t per acre of rye a good yield assumption? Too much too little? And will it be ready for harvest in time for maize to go in in decent time?)
I'm fairly confident italian, perennial ryegrass and most other grass should be ok (Timothy cocksfoot, fetolololium etc) but what about legumes and herbs such as clovers, chicory, plantain etc?
I'm guessing winter corn should be fine as well.

Next question is, if you planted winter corn as early as possible could you harvest it as wholecrop early enough to put maize in afterwards?
I've grown spring wholecrop this year and last year and averaged 4t/acre, I ideally need 7-8t per acre how would I be able to do this? Can I? Ours was sown in two lots, one in March and one in April, the early one was ready in June and the Aptil sown was harvested this week.
What i grew this year had no sprays and a reduced seed rate of only 35-40kg per acre because it was undersown with grass, if I upped the seed rate to 75-80kg would that be enough to reach 7-8t alone? It also only had 20kg of Nitrogen per acre in the seed bed if this was increased (to what amount and how many times - in the seed bed and once again post emergence?) could I hit the 7-8t target?

Thankyou

wholecrop rate here would be 50-60kg acre depends how late we get it in, fert around 90kgN/ha
+ 14kg 3 year silage grass seed. Last year yielded 10t/ac, hopping for 8t this year will be cutting next couple of days. Normally get 2 cuts of silage afterwards.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

We do a fair bit of spring barley wholecrop, which will pretty reliably do 7/8t ac, sometimes more but rarely less.

We drill at a 80/90kg ac seed with 100kg of N and no sprays. Try to drill late march.

Double cropping maize and cereals will never work on a regular basis in this country.

 

[Friesianfan]

Just keep it simple! Grass silage and a bit of whole crop to help with a grass break is all you need.

 

[dinderleat]

Maize under plastic, winter wheat, either redclover and festolium mix or a medium term let them repeat

 

[Sambo]

Maize followed by wheat for wholecrop then grass drilled, possibly get a cut/graze before winter. Then to go back to maize after however many years it's in grass, either use it for over winter and spray off early or take a cut of silage.

 

[jerseycowsman]

Just keep it simple! Grass silage and a bit of whole crop to help with a grass break is all you need.

Don’t even bother with the whole crop.
grass and a few bags of nitram, that’s all you need to make serious money milking cows in Cornwall.
All the other stuff drains your profit

 

[dinderleat]

Don’t even bother with the whole crop.
grass and a few bags of nitram, that’s all you need to make serious money milking cows in Cornwall.
All the other stuff drains your profit

We all don’t farm in the land of milk and honey

 

[deleted user 837354]

Why the aim of 15th September for harvesting the maize? It's certainly possible in a normal year/autumn. You can put wheat behind it easily. You could sow a 2-3-4 year cutting ley behind that very readily, much depends on the state of the field after maize harvest. Being flexible when it comes to the weather is useful in some ways.

All things being equal you can get hefty spring-sown crops if they are done right. Don't try to grow grass under any of them as it seriously reduces your options for weed control and cereals do not like competition with stuff growing in the bottom. You will get a grass reseed in behind a cereal wholecrop very readily because they come off early.

The seed and fertiliser rates discussed here are of little use as they vary according to the farm in question, potential soil fertility, the time of sowing and which crop/variety is grown. Done right, you will get wheat or triticale or rye to yield just as much as an average maize crop with 40% starch values quite readily. you won't get that by drilling a pish of spring barley and leaving it to it.

Each crop needs to be treated as a crop, including the grass. You can't sow wheat and then basically turn your back on it and expect to harvest 15 tonnes/acre in July. In a wet spring and given your location the crop will likely be a dead brown stick with disease come June. Maximum use of herbicides/cultivation should be made in maize and wheat crops as they are your chance to sort out weed issues prior to introducing your next grass reseed. Think about making each component in a rotation work for you.

You could harvest wholecrop early and try to get maize in behind it but I don't think you will get away with it every year and you will be making a serious compromise on the quality of the wholecrop.

Trying to establish italian or festuloliums behind maize is relatively easy, but longer term diploid grasses or clover and the like is a bit riskier. In a kind autumn you will be fine (also handy you are in Cornwall) but some years the weather closes in and the rain tries to drown it or the frost sorts them out- they need to be established and putting on enough root mass to see them through the winter.

Beet is another option but like anything else you don't get the output unless it is looked after.

In all of these crops having a very reliable and conscientious contractor who does the work right on the nail helps a lot. Someone who turns up on time and tell you honestly that X or Y isn't good enough to be drilled is well worth whatever money they want paying. Everything: ploughing, drilling and spraying being done right is a big help. The right agronomist is essential, too. Where I had customers with grass, maize and wholecrop I had to be there the most, virtually all year round bar November-January and even then I was often sorting cropping or nutrient plans and the like.

If you want any more help or specifics let me know.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Why the aim of 15th September for harvesting the maize? It's certainly possible in a normal year/autumn. You can put wheat behind it easily. You could sow a 2-3-4 year cutting ley behind that very readily, much depends on the state of the field after maize harvest. Being flexible when it comes to the weather is useful in some ways.

All things being equal you can get hefty spring-sown crops if they are done right. Don't try to grow grass under any of them as it seriously reduces your options for weed control and cereals do not like competition with stuff growing in the bottom. You will get a grass reseed in behind a cereal wholecrop very readily because they come off early.

The seed and fertiliser rates discussed here are of little use as they vary according to the farm in question, potential soil fertility, the time of sowing and which crop/variety is grown. Done right, you will get wheat or triticale or rye to yield just as much as an average maize crop with 40% starch values quite readily. you won't get that by drilling a pish of spring barley and leaving it to it.

Each crop needs to be treated as a crop, including the grass. You can't sow wheat and then basically turn your back on it and expect to harvest 15 tonnes/acre in July. In a wet spring and given your location the crop will likely be a dead brown stick with disease come June. Maximum use of herbicides/cultivation should be made in maize and wheat crops as they are your chance to sort out weed issues prior to introducing your next grass reseed. Think about making each component in a rotation work for you.

You could harvest wholecrop early and try to get maize in behind it but I don't think you will get away with it every year and you will be making a serious compromise on the quality of the wholecrop.

Trying to establish italian or festuloliums behind maize is relatively easy, but longer term diploid grasses or clover and the like is a bit riskier. In a kind autumn you will be fine (also handy you are in Cornwall) but some years the weather closes in and the rain tries to drown it or the frost sorts them out- they need to be established and putting on enough root mass to see them through the winter.

Beet is another option but like anything else you don't get the output unless it is looked after.

In all of these crops having a very reliable and conscientious contractor who does the work right on the nail helps a lot. Someone who turns up on time and tell you honestly that X or Y isn't good enough to be drilled is well worth whatever money they want paying. Everything: ploughing, drilling and spraying being done right is a big help. The right agronomist is essential, too. Where I had customers with grass, maize and wholecrop I had to be there the most, virtually all year round bar November-January and even then I was often sorting cropping or nutrient plans and the like.

If you want any more help or specifics let me know.

Did you ever come across any spring triticale in your agronomy days?

I have to grow 100 ac of spring sown cereals (not maize) on this place for the land owners mid tier scheme. Upto now I've always sown SB, I find it a reliable crop with very little management input required but it only does 8ish t/acre and the ground is empty for 8+ months a year. Spring barley is very nearly a catch crop in itself.

I like the idea of spring trit as something that might produce 12t maybe? It's only for late lactation and dry cows so I'm really looking for maximum total biomass, quality is secondary.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Did you ever come across any spring triticale in your agronomy days?

I have to grow 100 ac of spring sown cereals (not maize) on this place for the land owners mid tier scheme. Upto now I've always sown SB, I find it a reliable crop with very little management input required but it only does 8ish t/acre and the ground is empty for 8+ months a year. Spring barley is very nearly a catch crop in itself.

I like the idea of spring trit as something that might produce 12t maybe? It's only for late lactation and dry cows so I'm really looking for maximum total biomass, quality is secondary.

I've not dabbled with it myself but it is grown here and there (not in my neck of the woods as far I am aware). Spring barley was my favourite spring crop as it was so simple, spring wheat might be worth a go if you have land that will let you drill early enough. I've had stonking yields from spring wheat and it can get just as leggy as a winter crop if done right. A lot depends on the weather and how early you can get it in and away.

It's madness that there is an agri-environmental scheme which encourages people to have land empty for 8 months a year?

 

[Beef farmer]

Did you ever come across any spring triticale in your agronomy days?

I have to grow 100 ac of spring sown cereals (not maize) on this place for the land owners mid tier scheme. Upto now I've always sown SB, I find it a reliable crop with very little management input required but it only does 8ish t/acre and the ground is empty for 8+ months a year. Spring barley is very nearly a catch crop in itself.

I like the idea of spring trit as something that might produce 12t maybe? It's only for late lactation and dry cows so I'm really looking for maximum total biomass, quality is secondary.

Definition of spring? Can you plant in feb? Or is there a stipulation of mid march?

 

[Cows 'n grass]

I think it pays £200/ac so it could make for some cheap feed if I was seeing the payment.

It has to remain as untouched stubble until February 14th.

I don't have enough acres to move it around so Ideally it would be something I could grow continuously for the next 5 years or grow 50:50 with SB in rotation.

 

[Beef farmer]

I think it pays £200/ac so it could make for some cheap feed if I was seeing the payment.

It has to remain as untouched stubble until February 14th.

I don't have enough acres to move it around so Ideally it would be something I could grow continuously for the next 5 years or grow 50:50 with SB in rotation.

Spring oats planted early would produce a large volume of stuff

 

[deleted user 837354]

It makes me savage that they design stupid rules that hinge upon arbitrary dates, why February the 14th? Why not the 1st of January or something? It's mental.

With the spring cereal crops earlier sowings normally pay dividends because they just have more time in the ground to develop roots before the real dry weather arrives, which is why many arable farmers in the kinder parts of the country are out putting spring crops in so early. It's a rare occasion you can do that on heavy land in Somerset.

 

[Cows 'n grass]

14th of Feb is pretty much also the day we start calving so it's a complete PIA for me. We will turn 100 dry cows out on it then because there's a pretty substantial amount of feed there by this point. By the time we've grazed it and spread a lot of fym on it it will be mid march.

Continuous ww sown September October would suit me perfectly because there's very little going on on the farm then.

 

[betweenthelines]

Just keep it simple! Grass silage and a bit of whole crop to help with a grass break is all you need.

True.

Trouble is that people growing a "crop" like Maize or Wholecrop will make sure everything is right-lime, fertiliser, sprays etc. etc but seem to think grass can be left to it's own devices.

 

[Sparkymark]

A simple 2 year rotation would be Maize - W Wheat - Westerwolds/Italian Ryegrass.

Maize always does well after grass. Wheat put in after the maize is off, then Westerwolds direct drilled into the Wheat stubble the following July. The Westerwolds should be ready to give a late cut in October/graze then a cut the following Spring before ripping up back to Maize.