Danish drilling trial in different systems

[Kaad]

Hi fellow TFF'ers

I attended a Danish trial (www.optitill.dk) with our Mzuri Pro-til. Please find below a link to the pictures taken of every plot.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6fm20dvnq8b5tck/5MIaQyU99I?lst

Notice: under every picture you see which drill and which seed bed. "Harv" means that it has been drilled into cultivated soil and "ploj" means into plough soil. If nothing else but the name of the drill it has gone in directly in stubble - no raking.

Please see website to see the drills and some vid's. In Danish but might give an idea! http://optitill.dk/maskiner

Thanks!

 

[Hartwig]

Hi Asbjorn,

bit confused about the CO4 - there are hardly any rows to see on the pictures !? Which coulters are fitted on this machine, there is nothing to see on the picture ? And why was it planted so deep as seen in the video ??

 

[Kaad]

Co4 is with GEN coulters, that's what I know.

 

[Andrew K]

Which drill came out on top?

 

[SorenIlsoe]

Hi Asbjorn,

bit confused about the CO4 - there are hardly any rows to see on the pictures !? Which coulters are fitted on this machine, there is nothing to see on the picture ? And why was it planted so deep as seen in the video ??

It's because it is the 6" wide GEN200 model that has been used.
Generelly they have some really bad germination results in the plots. I wonder if they have checked the seed quality?
In the true direct drilled by VM Seeder, CO4 and Amazone cayenne there has only been 56% germination. The same seeders in cultivated soil had 58%.
The "Precision drills" with depth control in cultivated soil (Lemken Compact Solitair, Horsch Pronto) had 68% germination!
The Claydon was 25% and 47% in two locations!
The Mzuri direct drilling was only 34% - but at the video it looks really fine to my.
When germination has to be counted in plots after wide space tine drill there is no use of a circel thrown to the ground because it can hit too many times between the rows with most of the area. I allways count the number of plants of 1 meter and the multiplicate with a factor to 1 sq-meter (The CO4 with 25cm space is plants of 1 meterx4= plants/m2). This is the most precise way.

 

[Kaad]

Thanks Søren.
It's a good point you have by the way they might have done the counting of germination.
When that is said I will also have to admit that we made a big mistake that day. We tried a new way of transporting the drill on the lorry, which showed to be time consuming so we arrived to late to prepare the drill probably. So when we got started we didn't see that we accidentally had blocked one of the coulters.
So when you are only doing three runs (0,6 ha) it seems to be a bit too big row distance... (It's NOT the right place to do that kind of mistake)
I admit that it is our mistake and of course there is a risk that they have counted that missing row in. But 34% is very low even though there is one out of 11 coulters blocked and it is absolutely not the picture we see on our own fields.

Hopefully it explained a bit.

That said it is a very good trial and it focuses on some good aspects.

 

[Kaad]

Which drill came out on top?

They don't really give the drills "stars" or pros/cons. It's up to the farmer himself to study and conclude what is best for him/her.

 

[SorenIlsoe]

Thanks Søren.
It's a good point you have by the way they might have done the counting of germination.
When that is said I will also have to admit that we made a big mistake that day. We tried a new way of transporting the drill on the lorry, which showed to be time consuming so we arrived to late to prepare the drill probably. So when we got started we didn't see that we accidentally had blocked one of the coulters.
So when you are only doing three runs (0,6 ha) it seems to be a bit too big row distance... (It's NOT the right place to do that kind of mistake)
I admit that it is our mistake and of course there is a risk that they have counted that missing row in. But 34% is very low even though there is one out of 11 coulters blocked and it is absolutely not the picture we see on our own fields.

Hopefully it explained a bit.

That said it is a very good trial and it focuses on some good aspects.

Yes Asbjørn - a lot of things can go wrong in these situations and very often it is a bit stressed!
No matter - despite how they are counting plants: it's the yield that matters! We will see that next summer.
But the interesting and funny thing is how the agronomists and farmers valuate the drills after their eyes! It is funny how "plowing" farmers stick to the picture of black soil with green rows af plants. When there is residues on the surface they don't like it!
Just the opposite of how I like it: the more organic matter on the surface the better - as long the new plants can grow through it.
I was surprised this year. I had a field with very much spring barley straw, and I thought the field would be a disaster and the straw would cause huge germination problems when I left it with the drill, but it didn't.

 

[JDJ]

Here are the result from 14 harvest:

Green is direct drill and red has been cultivate before drilling. Blue is plough

Location "Vrold" medium / clay soil winter barley

Location "tørring" heavy clay and cold climate
Winter wheat

Location "Vinten" light soil winter wheat

 

[SilliamWhale]

Never seen a VM working. What are they like?

 

[JDJ]

Never seen a VM working. What are they like?

I think it's a very good machine if you are after a disk drill, very accurate seed placement if set up properly. Can do direct drilling, min till and ploughed so very versatile. Last year it did a great job, but this year it really had trouble to get the seed in the ground at the "tørring" location wich I find odd as the soil there is in super conditions and flet a lot better for us with the tine drills than the other location were you could feel the tracks and compaction.
There was one 100 kg seed in the tank so I am thinking that may be the reason.

If I had to choose I would definitely preferre it over a vaderstadt

 

[JDJ]

O Here is the germination results of the autumn drilling of the Vrold and tørring plots.

Blue is numbers of seeds drilled pr m2.
Red is counted plants in direct drilling
Blue is counted plants in min till.

First tørring : heavy, wet and cold clay

Then Vrold :

Tørring in the top of table, Vrold in the bottom green is dd, red is min till

I visited the Vrold plots last week, and all looked good and from a visual view they all look the same.

 

[JDJ]

Here's "my" plots from the spring barley at the Vinten location. Drilled with gen 400 on 4m sprinter

Only got pictures of the dd part, but considering hos uneven and compact the field are I'm very happy with the result.
Quench barley 275 seeds pr m2. No fertilizer at drilling

 

[SorenIlsoe]

Looks fine!
Here it has been the worst conditions for DD in the spring ever!!!
A wet and cold winter without frost in the soil. Lots of rain in winter. Low temperatures and too wet and cold soil in April. 40mm rain in end of March when it was nearly good. Drilled in the middle of April, but still cold soil and very long time to see plants germinate. After germination still very slow growth. Should have used my compact disc to break the top 2-3 cm soil to heat it up, but have taken a decision about DD!
Plowed fields either destroyed by compaction, but others really good and far away ahead in growth from DD.
If DD spring barley works this year and gives acceptable yields, then it will allways work!

 

[JDJ]

Looks fine!
Here it has been the worst conditions for DD in the spring ever!!!
A wet and cold winter without frost in the soil. Lots of rain in winter. Low temperatures and too wet and cold soil in April. 40mm rain in end of March when it was nearly good. Drilled in the middle of April, but still cold soil and very long time to see plants germinate. After germination still very slow growth. Should have used my compact disc to break the top 2-3 cm soil to heat it up, but have taken a decision about DD!
Plowed fields either destroyed by compaction, but others really good and far away ahead in growth from DD.
If DD spring barley works this year and gives acceptable yields, then it will allways work!

Not only for dd, in this area 90% of the spring barley fields looks like s..t both in ploughed and min till systems.
Imo true dd spring crops will only work in 1 out of 5 years here in Denmark. All the other years we have to move to top soil to get some water out of the soli. Otherwise it will never get dry and warm enough. And if you wait long enough to make it dry and warm up on it's own it will be too late for a high yield spring barley crop.
My spring beans is a good example one swallow pass with a cultivator = 100% germination and a cracking looking crop, dd beans 70-80% germination, the rest of the planets is halfway eaten by slugs.
I still think dd is the way forward, but if the result will be better after a pass with a cultivator I wouldn't hesitate to pull the cultivator out of the sheed.

 

[Old John]

Not only for dd, in this area 90% of the spring barley fields looks like s..t both in ploughed and min till systems.
Imo true dd spring crops will only work in 1 out of 5 years here in Denmark. All the other years we have to move to top soil to get some water out of the soli. Otherwise it will never get dry and warm enough. And if you wait long enough to make it dry and warm up on it's own it will be too late for a high yield spring barley crop.
My spring beans is a good example one swallow pass with a cultivator = 100% germination and a cracking looking crop, dd beans 70-80% germination, the rest of the planets is halfway eaten by slugs.
I still think dd is the way forward, but if the result will be better after a pass with a cultivator I wouldn't hesitate to pull the cultivator out of the sheed.

As I've said on another thread, by "blacking the land", i.e. Allowing the sun and wind to play on the soil surface, this allows the soil to dry and warm up a lot quicker. You don't need to go deep.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Not only for dd, in this area 90% of the spring barley fields looks like s..t both in ploughed and min till systems.
Imo true dd spring crops will only work in 1 out of 5 years here in Denmark. All the other years we have to move to top soil to get some water out of the soli. Otherwise it will never get dry and warm enough. And if you wait long enough to make it dry and warm up on it's own it will be too late for a high yield spring barley crop.
My spring beans is a good example one swallow pass with a cultivator = 100% germination and a cracking looking crop, dd beans 70-80% germination, the rest of the planets is halfway eaten by slugs.
I still think dd is the way forward, but if the result will be better after a pass with a cultivator I wouldn't hesitate to pull the cultivator out of the sheed.

There's no reason why DD should mean 80% germination. Change the drill?

 

[York]

I'm getting a idea of the soils in DK and so far the situation is home made, so to say. If you would look at your Ca & Mg+, the soil chemistry, which builds the house (porosity) for the soil life I think you will see a significant change.
Now, some: change chemistry is not all. Agreed,.
What was there 1st?
Even the evolutionists say:
1st was the minerals
2nd was the life
So without the minerals no soil life, and no house.
Regulation of spring moisture:
you can do this by tillage or by plants.
but also through changing the soil chemistry to be more naturally free draining to help the about 2 options / choices.
York-Th.

 

[JDJ]

There's no reason why DD should mean 80% germination. Change the drill?

Can't see how a different drill would make the Danish weather better, my main problem is that the dry periods are too short. That's why we need some light tillage to get the soli dry.
Actually I think the tilth a tine drill makes is a advantage as it will dry the soil out.
Could be worried about how a ld disk drill would perform in danish conditions. Haven't met anyone in dk who had success with a dd disk drill yet.

Jacob.

There's no reason why DD should mean 80% germination. Change the drill?

 

[SorenIlsoe]

I'm getting a idea of the soils in DK and so far the situation is home made, so to say. If you would look at your Ca & Mg+, the soil chemistry, which builds the house (porosity) for the soil life I think you will see a significant change.
Now, some: change chemistry is not all. Agreed,.
What was there 1st?
Even the evolutionists say:
1st was the minerals
2nd was the life
So without the minerals no soil life, and no house.
Regulation of spring moisture:
you can do this by tillage or by plants.
but also through changing the soil chemistry to be more naturally free draining to help the about 2 options / choices.
York-Th.

York: It is free draining - I have scientists mesuring this two times every year in the same fields and comparing to plowed fields, and they report it is very high. Never problems with rain because of micro- and makro pores. All this theory about mg/Ca - has it ever been documented in any trial or by any science? I have white calcium underground just 70 cm below surface and a lot of nightcrawlers pulling it op. And I have low/medium Mg values. As I understand the theory should be that high Mg values to Ca is causing problems!
The soil was perfect last year and will propably be again in the autumn! No visible compaction or signs from wheels at all. It was the right thing to wait. Not even in headlands is there any problems to see. We just needed some heat - thats all. Years and weather is different.
I will not disturb the soil because it damages rainworm channels and soil life - the photos show cathes in just one night in a pitfall trap in spring barley. That prevents aphid attacks later!
By the way: it looks better and a change is on its way. A trip in the neigborhood today showed many plowed spring barley fields beginning to stop looking good. Many fields becomes yellow and plants has thin leaves and seem to have problems. DD fields is now getting more darkgreen and makes a lot of tillers.