David Handleys piece today

[Henarar]

That is the system in much of Scotland with a lot of suckler stores heading to Lothians and Aberdeen for finishing. Does that not happen in Englandshire?

yep a lot go north

 

[kiwi pom]

Would the National Parks be so appealing to the general public if re-wilding took place?
The scenery would certainly be different and I'm sure that's one of the reasons tourists go there.
Hill farmers may be dependent on subsidy but they are creating a landscape as well as producing food.
Surely that's public goods?

Why can't Eastern Counties all arable farmers bring back livestock farming themselves?

Have they lost the skills?
Have they become lazy because we all know life is easier in a tractor seat.

No wonder direct drilling has become so popular with no FYM to plough back in

Perhaps its good that they don't, Cheap straw, plenty of feed, nice big flat paddocks for easy management and the ability to have a sustainable rotation, with plenty of manure for fert.
Are we sure the harder to farm livestock areas could compete with that?
At the moment they don't need the extra hassle though, because an easy combinable crop rotation with a few months work a year gives them a good living.

 

[Huno]

Perhaps its good that they don't, Cheap straw, plenty of feed, nice big flat paddocks for easy management and the ability to have a sustainable rotation, with plenty of manure for fert.
Are we sure the harder to farm livestock areas could compete with that?
At the moment they don't need the extra hassle though, because an easy combinable crop rotation with a few months work a year gives them a good living.

David Handley decided that direct action was more powerful than a good Barrister... this time round?? Maybe intelligence will win??

 

[kiwi pom]

When I started, there were plenty of 70 acre family dairy farmers about, probably employing 1 person each, albeit on a casual basis, new tractor every 7 years, and spending a fair amount at local firms.
Now it's 2000 cow herds, employing half a dozen Polish staff, and falling foul of the environment agency with major pollution incidents......
I know which I prefer.....

Same where I was, the only thing I'd add is many of those small farms were doing plenty of polluting of their own. It often took restrictions and inspections to up their effluent storage and application standards.
Most dairy farms hover around 100 cows per labour unit though, regardless of size. Your 2000 cow housed year round herd will employ a lot of people and spend a lot of money.

 

[Bruce Almighty]

Perhaps its good that they don't, Cheap straw, plenty of feed, nice big flat paddocks for easy management and the ability to have a sustainable rotation, with plenty of manure for fert.
Are we sure the harder to farm livestock areas could compete with that?
At the moment they don't need the extra hassle though, because an easy combinable crop rotation with a few months work a year gives them a good living.

Perhaps your last sentence sums it up ?

Incidentally, why did you emigrate & what do you do in NZ?

 

[JP1]

That is the system in much of Scotland with a lot of suckler stores heading to Lothians and Aberdeen for finishing. Does that not happen in Englandshire?

Used to

Plenty of redundant bullock yards and sheep fold yards around East Anglia and not all converted - yet

 

[An Gof]

I wasn’t having a dig at anyone just suggesting a possible route if they force uplands to be re wilded or used for something other than livestock, just to clarify.
Yes the skills have been lost you are correct. I know nothing about livestock. Hence why i suggested a joint venture type agreement with someone who needs land but can’t get it.
The laziness comment is just boring now. I want to do as little work for maximum return. Direct drilling is part of this. (FYI you don’t need to plough muck down). Who wants to work themselves into an early grave for a pittance or abit of subsidy? I certainly don’t.
I am fully aware of many of the downfalls and negatives around conventional arable farming, and working to try and do something about that. Because what worked for my father doesn’t work now. Self awareness and being truthful to the hard reality is one of our biggest assets.

Do you know about or understand the stratification of the sheep industry in the UK? It’s an important factor that underwrites the whole industry.

 

[ajd132]

Do you know about or understand the stratification of the sheep industry in the UK? It’s an important factor that underwrites the whole industry.

No please explain so i understand

 

[ajd132]

Do you know about or understand the stratification of the sheep industry in the UK? It’s an important factor that underwrites the whole industry.

I’ve just read some stuff about it but still don’t really understand

 

[Lili]

I’ve just read some stuff about it but still don’t really understand

 

[ajd132]

View attachment 1008971

Does it have to happen like that?

 

[toquark]

I think dairy is rapidly going the same way as pigs & poultry. Whereby the farming is dominated by a few large industrialists who are in turn held by the short and curlies by corporate interests until they themselves are bought out. A few family dairies around here have occupied niches by supplying directly which is I think quite well supported but there isn't the market here to support them all.

Red meat production completely underpins the rural economy here in terms of employment and supply chain infrastructure, however I suspect in terms of bare regional GDP, dairy will eclipse beef & sheep., simply because they spend a hell of a lot more.

 

[7610 super q]

Same where I was, the only thing I'd add is many of those small farms were doing plenty of polluting of their own. It often took restrictions and inspections to up their effluent storage and application standards.
Most dairy farms hover around 100 cows per labour unit though, regardless of size. Your 2000 cow housed year round herd will employ a lot of people and spend a lot of money.

Yes I agree, it's difficult to know which is actually best.
Only 4 tractor dealers in the county now as apposed to 8. But they will be selling more tractors each ? Tractors have got bigger, but sell in lesser numbers ?
I bet the total spend in the community is way less now when adjusted for inflation than 35 years ago though.
A good quote seen on this forum a few weeks ago, £120k tractor parked in the front yard, whilst round the back they're trying to milk cows in a palour installed in 1979.....
Things don't feel quite right to me.

 

[Secret Agronomist]

Just for clarity, ELMS is an English disease


The 3 other nations will probably come up with something worse. Watch this space

Oh don't worry I'm sure they are working on it as we speak!

 

[britishblue]

I have a nephew who has done an apprenticeship with John Deere. When he was at training centre at Nottingham the Barclays who had the agency in North East Scotland had fallen out with John Deere and given up the brand. When a student asked about them losing the agency somebody from JD replied It's not a problem as most of Aberdeenshire will be planted with trees soon! JD must be in cahoots with defra I think!

 

[neilo]

Does it have to happen like that?

No, and increasingly it doesn’t. Lots of sheep flocks are kept as self-replacing flocks, with only rams bought in as needed. It allows control of breeding selection and much better disease control.

 

[neilo]

Yes I agree, it's difficult to know which is actually best.
Only 4 tractor dealers in the county now as apposed to 8. But they will be selling more tractors each ? Tractors have got bigger, but sell in lesser numbers ?
I bet the total spend in the community is way less now when adjusted for inflation than 35 years ago though.
A good quote seen on this forum a few weeks ago, £120k tractor parked in the front yard, whilst round the back they're trying to milk cows in a palour installed in 1979.....
Things don't feel quite right to me.

There are plenty of dairy farmers that work the other way round, with knackered old tractors and modern parlours. Quite right too, when the parlour is a machine mostly used 6 hours a day, every day.

I have a near neighbour milking 270 cows who doesn’t have a decent tractor on the place. Why would he spend money on machinery, or a shed to put it in, when he could get more cows with the same money?
Another has just installed a couple of robots, again running well maintained older machinery.

 

[Old Tup]

There are plenty of dairy farmers that work the other way round, with knackered old tractors and modern parlours. Quite right too, when the parlour is a machine mostly used 6 hours a day, every day.

I have a near neighbour milking 270 cows who doesn’t have a decent tractor on the place. Why would he spend money on machinery, or a shed to put it in, when he could get more cows with the same money?
Another has just installed a couple of robots, again running well maintained older machinery.

Some would say a bit of Oil and Grease and an occasional service then the machinery wouldn’t be knackered…

 

[Old Tup]

No, and increasingly it doesn’t. Lots of sheep flocks are kept as self-replacing flocks, with only rams bought in as needed. It allows control of breeding selection and much better disease control.

Criss Crossing Suckler cows on upland or marginal land probably works easier…Angus Bull and a Sim bull each bulling each other’s heifers….each needs to be moved on before they normally would to avoid inbreeding.
Sheep are a entirely different kettle of fish…yes the idea is sound…but.
It needs considerable skill and stockmanship to avoid the pitfalls….with cows…the best heifers are bulled and become the herd replacements..
Sheep…..probably need a nucleus flock to breed your replacements adding another management requirement…and reducing the main flock size to accommodate it…increasing the Labour / Management input considerably.
Never forgotten a Scottish Colleges guy …..his comment…
” I don’t know, if there is an easy way to do something in agriculture farmers will find a way to make it difficult”.

 

[Courier]

In that case hope she’s taking responsibility for feeding the masses and the country’s balance of payments deficit................does anyone actually give a fig about that anymore with the country in so much debt

The bitch will be long gone from number 10 by the time severe hunger sets in…