DD crops longer to ripen?

[BSH]

Anyone else found that crops established by DD take longer to ripen? I felt this year ( only my second year) that the two crops (WB and Spring Oats) took longer to ripen ( Only cut the oats today) and wondered if the moisture retention from lack of disturbance was a factor?

 

[yellow belly]

I have not found that finished harvest earlier than for 10 years last Friday despite april planted spring crops

early varietys are the rule from now on farming at 400 ft in south west Lincolnshire puts use a week behind most areas

 

[shakerator]

What was fungicide stategy if at all @BSH ??

 

[BSH]

I dint use a fungicide on the oats, but did on the winter barley. The DD is certainly helping with moisture conservation , which was one of my aims when converting, and I wondered if that was having an effect in delaying the ripening of the crops. It was the harvest contractor who felt that they weren't ripening as quickly as he would expect. Perhaps there is nothing in it and it is just a function of the season.

 

[York]

I dint use a fungicide on the oats, but did on the winter barley. The DD is certainly helping with moisture conservation , which was one of my aims when converting, and I wondered if that was having an effect in delaying the ripening of the crops. It was the harvest contractor who felt that they weren't ripening as quickly as he would expect. Perhaps there is nothing in it and it is just a function of the season.

BSH,
which N sources did you use?
We see a good & stable correlation between which type of N was used and ripping date in conventional farming. And as over here the No Till people as majority do a shift in using the various N sources we see a later harvest date quite often.
York-Th.

 

[BSH]

I started with a dose of AS and then Urea. It is the first time I have used urea. Does that fit the pattern?

 

[Baling Hay]

I dint use a fungicide on the oats, but did on the winter barley. The DD is certainly helping with moisture conservation , which was one of my aims when converting, and I wondered if that was having an effect in delaying the ripening of the crops. It was the harvest contractor who felt that they weren't ripening as quickly as he would expect. Perhaps there is nothing in it and it is just a function of the season.

I thought you were organic? Or am I imagining that?

 

[York]

I started with a dose of AS and then Urea. It is the first time I have used urea. Does that fit the pattern?

BSH,
yes.
York-Th.

 

[dontknowanything]

I thought you were organic? Or am I imagining that?

He was, but he's now recovered

 

[BSH]

I thought you were organic? Or am I imagining that?

@Steakeater, I dropped organic status 2 years ago although I am running the grassland as effectively 'Organic' as I don't use fert on the grass and am mob grazing. The arable area gets full treatment!

 

[Baling Hay]

@Steakeater, I dropped organic status 2 years ago although I am running the grassland as effectively 'Organic' as I don't use fert on the grass and am mob grazing. The arable area gets full treatment!

Why such a change?

 

[York]

I started with a dose of AS and then Urea. It is the first time I have used urea. Does that fit the pattern?

this delay can be very frustrating if your delayed crop is hit with a time of rainy weather.
We have had hold up's for more than 2 weeks in seed wheat. Didn't hurt any quality issues, other fields dropped below the minimum allowed properties for seed. Sprouting: I have never heard of a issue, even in this year where the harvest was very long and some regions which normally finish at the 15th of august have finished early September where sprouting was such a issue that a number of wheat fields where chopped for green energy digester.
Later harvest often comes with higher yields
Unbelievable, but have seen it: some people don't like this as their logistics can't handle it.
York-Th.

 

[BSH]

Thanks @York for your info. Is it your impression that it is the combination of the AS and Urea, or more a factor of one of the two either the S in the AS or lower salt in the Urea?

 

[BSH]

Why such a change?

Will reply fully later.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Thanks @York for your info. Is it your impression that it is the combination of the AS and Urea, or more a factor of one of the two either the S in the AS or lower salt in the Urea?

I use all urea and definitely don't notice a later ripening time. In fact past two years have been earlier. I have used AS in the past though and come to think of it they haven't ripened as quick but that could also be the weather. Yields have been better with urea, but that could also have been the weather! Variables, variables!

 

[BSH]

@Steakeater To explain! We were certified organic for 12 years and were all grass and direct marketing the beef from all the progeny of two herds an autumn and spring calving herd of Shorthorns. When we started there was a good premium for organic produce and a worthwhile subsidy. When the recession hit the price of organic collapsed almost overnight and at the same time the certified butcher and farm shop we sold to closed. We struggled to achieve any premium for a couple of years and then it picked up but it was only 10% where it had been 30%. The subsidy stayed the same but the Soil Association fees went up. I had to make a change. There were various factors in the decision process:
1. To me Organic was a busted flush. Without Govt support the system was unsustainable because the market wasn't prepared to pay for the difference. With food becoming more expensive in the future, I felt that here was an early warning that when push comes to shove, even wealthy people will not spend more on food.
2. Organic farming needs to be an integrated mixed farming enterprise, which is difficult on a small farm. Although I am now a mixed farm, the logistics of getting my contractor and grain storage certified were too great for little extra margin.
It is hard enough getting a contractor to cut 80 acres of a single crop let alone smaller areas of a crop that needs separate handling!
3. When I started farming in 2000 the prices for crops and beef were bad, but the subsidy and the way the farm was set up meant starting a cattle project was best way forward. The farm isn't a great cereal farm as it is on light land. However since then the price of crops increased greater than the price of beef. I wanted to access this increase, but it wasn't reflected in the organic prices. even on our poorer land, I felt the increased cereal prices justified conversion.
4. Fundamentally, I didn't see a margin over inputs for the beef but I did for cereals, so have kept the grassland largely organic (although uncertified) and conventional cereals. The cattle are PFLA certified instead.
5. Having followed a lot of the discussion on the Forum and its predecessor, I felt that as I had learnt more about soil management, I could achieve the same soil outcome that I was chasing with the organic management but come at it from a different angle whilst making more money. Buying a small direct drill means that I can keep involved in the arable operation that is otherwise run by contractors and pursue a passion and be involved in something interesting and worthwhile.
6. Ultimately, I would like to get to the stage of someone like Gabe Brown, and have such biologically active soil that I can maintain yields whilst dropping or minimising inputs. Don't know if I will get there, but I am trying! And feel I can do it more sustainably (profitably) than being certified organic.

Hope that gives an insight into the change!

 

[Baling Hay]

@Steakeater To explain! We were certified organic for 12 years and were all grass and direct marketing the beef from all the progeny of two herds an autumn and spring calving herd of Shorthorns. When we started there was a good premium for organic produce and a worthwhile subsidy. When the recession hit the price of organic collapsed almost overnight and at the same time the certified butcher and farm shop we sold to closed. We struggled to achieve any premium for a couple of years and then it picked up but it was only 10% where it had been 30%. The subsidy stayed the same but the Soil Association fees went up. I had to make a change. There were various factors in the decision process:
1. To me Organic was a busted flush. Without Govt support the system was unsustainable because the market wasn't prepared to pay for the difference. With food becoming more expensive in the future, I felt that here was an early warning that when push comes to shove, even wealthy people will not spend more on food.
2. Organic farming needs to be an integrated mixed farming enterprise, which is difficult on a small farm. Although I am now a mixed farm, the logistics of getting my contractor and grain storage certified were too great for little extra margin.
It is hard enough getting a contractor to cut 80 acres of a single crop let alone smaller areas of a crop that needs separate handling!
3. When I started farming in 2000 the prices for crops and beef were bad, but the subsidy and the way the farm was set up meant starting a cattle project was best way forward. The farm isn't a great cereal farm as it is on light land. However since then the price of crops increased greater than the price of beef. I wanted to access this increase, but it wasn't reflected in the organic prices. even on our poorer land, I felt the increased cereal prices justified conversion.
4. Fundamentally, I didn't see a margin over inputs for the beef but I did for cereals, so have kept the grassland largely organic (although uncertified) and conventional cereals. The cattle are PFLA certified instead.
5. Having followed a lot of the discussion on the Forum and its predecessor, I felt that as I had learnt more about soil management, I could achieve the same soil outcome that I was chasing with the organic management but come at it from a different angle whilst making more money. Buying a small direct drill means that I can keep involved in the arable operation that is otherwise run by contractors and pursue a passion and be involved in something interesting and worthwhile.
6. Ultimately, I would like to get to the stage of someone like Gabe Brown, and have such biologically active soil that I can maintain yields whilst dropping or minimising inputs. Don't know if I will get there, but I am trying! And feel I can do it more sustainably (profitably) than being certified organic.

Hope that gives an insight into the change!

Thanks for the very informative reply. I found it interesting and it sounds like you made the right decision.

Out of interest, how did you feel going out for the first time with the sprayer?

 

[BSH]

Still trying to get my head around the spraying! Love what round up can do, but also surprised that it isn't 100% effective. Long term grassland needed two passes to kill sward. I don't like using insecticides. I haven't used Dursban and haven't sprayed for flea beetle. I have sprayed for OBM against my better judgement prophelactically and wonder whether I needed to. I didn't want to spray crops off, but have ended up doing just that. I wont use reglone again though- waste of money. Still slightly horrified by the chem spend! I suppose the biggest change was having to hire an agronomist to help manage all the chem applications instead of making the decisions myself.

 

[Baling Hay]

Still trying to get my head around the spraying! Love what round up can do, but also surprised that it isn't 100% effective. Long term grassland needed two passes to kill sward. I don't like using insecticides. I haven't used Dursban and haven't sprayed for flea beetle. I have sprayed for OBM against my better judgement prophelactically and wonder whether I needed to. I didn't want to spray crops off, but have ended up doing just that. I wont use reglone again though- waste of money. Still slightly horrified by the chem spend! I suppose the biggest change was having to hire an agronomist to help manage all the chem applications instead of making the decisions myself.

Yeah I too hate insecticides, nasty stuff.