digging a 20m by 50m pond?

[Highland Mule]

My putative pond will be more a reservoir, in that I intend to fill/replenish it from roof run-off, otherwise only acidic, and significently sub-surface peaty run-off water from the Moss.
Simply because rather than pay to cart the clay away, I calculate I can usefully use it to build banks around the pond, within certain perimeter/size constraints.
We currently got 3 roofs, the house, about 15m by 10m and 2 sheds, each nominal a 10m by 20m, about 550m2 in total, plus rainfall over the surface area of the pond.
I also intend to erect another 10m by 20m shed.
I attempted to do research for nett rainfall, i.e. less evaporative losses for our Co. Antrim climate without much success.
Fingers crossed.
Marcus

Any help?

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/climate/gcex6c270#?region=northernireland

 

[Wheyibuggermair]

Well buy your own bloody digger then and get the job done

I did, and then realised a 1.5 ton Kubota isn't really up to the job, hence my haunting this site in order to seek advice not to make suchstupid mistakes again-

 

[Wheyibuggermair]

Give them notice to complete the job and, if they don't, get someone else and invoice the first contractors. "Rogue Traders" has heaps of examples of this.

Unfortunately it was a 'cash in hand job' so one one hand I didnt lose any money, on the other I'm left with a dry pond, an out of place 'berm' and a few acres of very rough ground.
The rough ground? I'm considering sorting with a box grader, the other problems will involve hiring plant.

 

[Grouse]

I did, and then realised a 1.5 ton Kubota isn't really up to the job, hence my haunting this site in order to seek advice not to make suchstupid mistakes again-

I admire your frankness !!!!

Fwiw, I bought a 15ton case for less than a 1.5ton Kubota - she literally eats work - I wouldn’t be without her now. I have had several diggers including MF50HX, Ford 550 diggers, Kubota’s both large and small 1.5t, 3.5t and 9t and it is surprising how good value the much larger machines are. The only issue is moving then from Farm to Farm - but once there they are fantastic

 

[Wheyibuggermair]

I admire your frankness !!!!

Fwiw, I bought a 15ton case for less than a 1.5ton Kubota - she literally eats work - I wouldn’t be without her now. I have had several diggers including MF50HX, Ford 550 diggers, Kubota’s both large and small 1.5t, 3.5t and 9t and it is surprising how good value the much larger machines are. The only issue is moving then from Farm to Farm - but once there they are fantastic

Aye, but your outlay was obviously beneficial from a business POV, my 40 acre patch of happiness doesn't generate any income,it's for the want of a better description, hobby forestry.
And though I love operating heavy machinery, tanks, underground JCMs and other bits and pieces, buying such equipment wouldn't make financial sense.
The trouble is (in my limited experience) you can't hire anything above the 1.5 ton range and once out of that small space you have to hire a machine plus certified operator.
And the last operator on my mud patch certainly needed 'certifying'

 

[kiwi pom]

Diggers, who needs diggers. Scrapers build ponds.
Overkill perhaps

 

[Bob c]

Diggers, who needs diggers. Scrapers build ponds.
Overkill perhaps



https://www.google.co.nz/imgres?img...XbAhXKipQKHeqPCdAQMwi9ASgAMAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

dozer and a scaper box

 

[Wheyibuggermair]

Diggers, who needs diggers. Scrapers build ponds.
Overkill perhaps



https://www.google.co.nz/imgres?img...XbAhXKipQKHeqPCdAQMwi9ASgAMAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

Those barstewards are the reason I need to build ponds!
My little bit of Northumberland, was a few years back, a dorty grite hole in thi groond...known as an opencast mine.
It was back filled and restored, now those bits restored to agricultural use were meticulously inspected and graded.
Not so, those areas restored forestry and public amenity, these areas were filled in with broken strata with a layer of clay and 'topped off' with a layer of soil.
In these areas, Drainage was a minor consideration, if actually considered at all.
In my bit, those machines layered a four feet bed of clay and in the process, compacted it very solidly, but before the soil was laid there was a requirement to 'rip' the clay bed to allow sufficient drainage, this was done in areas being returned to farming, but largely 'skipped' in forestry and public amenity areas.
Hence my problem was/ is plodging up to the kneecaps from Nov to March and having a rock hard surface for the rest of the year.
But by putting ponds in strategic areas (bunds and digging) using an auger to poke through into the broken strata we are slowly getting there.
But the the stupid bugger we hired for our last pond, despite the above being explained to him,(in minute detail) scraped down to the broken strata.
Result?best drainage in Northumberland....."..

 

[Grouse]

Aye, but your outlay was obviously beneficial from a business POV, my 40 acre patch of happiness doesn't generate any income,it's for the want of a better description, hobby forestry.
And though I love operating heavy machinery, tanks, underground JCMs and other bits and pieces, buying such equipment wouldn't make financial sense.
The trouble is (in my limited experience) you can't hire anything above the 1.5 ton range and once out of that small space you have to hire a machine plus certified operator.
And the last operator on my mud patch certainly needed 'certifying'

There are plenty of independent hire companies who will hire out self drive machines in the 9 to 15 ton size. On several occasions I have hired Kubota 9T 360’s - budget on £90 a day weekend hire plus transport costs - or around £400 a week. Some will be more and some less.

Given you know the ground and the issues, plus you know how to drive a 360 it’s got to be the best option

 

[marcusthehat]

Re the above comments,
Highland Mule,
Yes I had found this Met data, but what I was looking for was evaporative losses for Co Antrim, to try and estimate losses from the standing water.
Others
I would consider hiring a 20 tonner from CPH, and attempting the dig myself, except not confident about getting the levels right along the top of the surrounding bank, and being v near the house it needs to be tidy and pleasing to the eye.
Also still looking at buying a digger, but I dont want to buy a wrong-un in haste, and rather get the pond dug while ground conditions are so dry.
p.s.
I bumped into a work acquaintence v recently, and asked did he know of any diggers for sale locally, instead he readily volunteered that he had, about 15 year ago, purchased a low hours, 16 tonne Atlas, for £2,800.00, with 4 good buckets, which digger was still "on the button" and giving sterling service.
Gerrrr ! ! !
P.S.
My previous post of 8.08pm was a trifle Guinness influenced and not particularly pertinent.

 

[joe soapy]

MF made just the tool for what you need to do

the driver aint the sharpest tool in the box, but its an amazing bit of kit in the right hands

 

[Tim Howard]

My first thought was a 955 traxcavator but it's a long time since I was on plant. A 360 then would have been an RB22 or 38. My first mount was an 8R with a 9 yard scraper then a 22A with blade or 12 yard box.
I have seen 15 ton tractors handling a 9 yard scraper but that would be overkill on your job.
Most farm handlers are now heavier than a drott or a JCB 3C and I would have thought that a good stone bucket with edge teeth would be worth a go.
You can always loosen up in front with a tractor mounted ripper or sub-soiler.

 

[mf298]

My first thought was a 955 traxcavator but it's a long time since I was on plant. A 360 then would have been an RB22 or 38. My first mount was an 8R with a 9 yard scraper then a 22A with blade or 12 yard box.
I have seen 15 ton tractors handling a 9 yard scraper but that would be overkill on your job.
Most farm handlers are now heavier than a drott or a JCB 3C and I would have thought that a good stone bucket with edge teeth would be worth a go.
You can always loosen up in front with a tractor mounted ripper or sub-soiler.

A 955 or similar would eat such a job, but finding an operator would be the difficult bit!

 

[Wheyibuggermair]

There are plenty of independent hire companies who will hire out self drive machines in the 9 to 15 ton size. On several occasions I have hired Kubota 9T 360’s - budget on £90 a day weekend hire plus transport costs - or around £400 a week. Some will be more and some less.

Given you know the ground and the issues, plus you know how to drive a 360 it’s got to be the best option

Have tried, but keep getting "have you an operators licence" !!?
I would gladly pay £400/ 500 for a week of use of a decent sized 360....I could sort out most of my problems in that time scale.
I'm trying not to buy gear that will stand idle most of the year, e.g., was tempted to buy a tractor mounted post knocker, but on enquiry, found a petrol driven post knocker that does all I require and gives me a good workout in the process (read, leaves me knackered but keeps wor lass happy I'm getting plenty of excersise-

 

[Wheyibuggermair]

Unless you know you will be below the water table, I would prefer a bulldozer to do the job . 360 will not give any compaction and you may find you will just have a big hole. Liners are expensive and prone to issues.

On my previous ponds the 360s gave ample compaction, there is 12' to 24 inches of compacted clay between the pond and a great big sponge of broken strata, these ponds have never come close to 'drying up'
Unlike the botched job I have recently suffered!!
The bloke that did the first two ponds is now retired, but gave a strong recommendation for the bloke that arseholed my last pond!
There's a lesson there somewhere-