Drainage, Methods, tips, tricks etc

[Secret Agronomist]

We are at the point now that we are needing to start some reasonable schemes instead of just patching as we go. we probably need to drain the whole of a 30 acre field and then there are other wet spots that just need a pipe ran through.
There are a few options such as getting a contractor with trencher in (better for big jobs), use an excavator (probably uses more gravel which is a pricey bit now), buy a trencher (probably the most palatable option for long term) or hire a trencher.
Looking at the cost of pipe compared to gravel we could be better putting pipes in closer on schemes and omitting gravel (maybe use pipe with filter cloth on), this is mostly on silty sands and sandy loams. if we did this and used a trencher then we could still use gravel where the subsoil was higher clay content and at more risk of sealing over. But again there are lots of options.
Does any one have experience of running their own tracked trencher, or tractor mounted version.
Any opinions welcome.

 

[Flasheart]

You only really need to stone a drain if your land will hold a mole drain. On our sandy clay cloams we drain 15 or 20 metres ( an old chain) apart with no stone.

Had some done under grant years ago 30 m apar with stone, as that was what the scheme required, but you need to cross mole which doesn't really work here.

 

[teslacoils]

Get contractor in to do the 30ac and the repairs etc all at the same time. If they're coming may as well do the lot and do it right.

 

[Will Blackburn]

Doesn’t sound like you know enough about the job to start thinking about buying a trencher.

 

[Kidds]

Have never put stone on a drain and haven't ever regretted it. Probably amounts to well over 100 acres over the years on all sorts of land.

 

[czechmate]

Doesn’t sound like you know enough about the job to start thinking about buying a trencher.

I could of written the op for over 30 years.
My first thought was, invariably, running a pipe through a wet spot doesn’t work

 

[farmerfred86]

dont f*ck about with drainage... if you aren't fully confident in your own ability get a specialist. Current schemes will need to last 50-100yrs!

 

[Secret Agronomist]

Doesn’t sound like you know enough about the job to start thinking about buying a trencher.

I probably know enough to get myself in trouble, but essentially water runs downhill, and trying to use an excavator in running sand is a fools errand.
We have plenty of experience with the drains that are here and what has/hasn't worked as we have fixed previous peoples mistakes.
99% of the time it is not being laid to the correct grade and I think that's where a trencher would come in. The gravel thing seems to be more of a personal choice, I'm leaning towards closer spacing and no gravel as the original clay drains didn't have any.
Most of thesmall schemes we've had done have been by excavator but the current jobs that need done have very little fall so again grade control becomes very important., and to be honest the small jobs would have been quicker and less costly with a trencher as well I suspect.
I'm waiting on a contractor to come and have a look at the job and then we'll see what happens, need to get an outfall first!

 

[Secret Agronomist]

dont f*ck about with drainage... if you aren't fully confident in your own ability get a specialist. Current schemes will need to last 50-100yrs!

Need to get the navvies back again to re do some of the original bits then

 

[zero]

We drained a flat 2 acre corner in a 4 acre field. Just dug 10 -15 foot along with a 4 ton digger then checked bottom of the trench with a long straight board and a level. Slightest bit of fall and we pulled the next dig. Used gravel through the bits that had water making into bottom of trench but it was solid clay, and for the first time in my life there isn't a big puddle in the corner despite all the rain. If i was draining sand I'd use pipe wrapped in fabric and not bother with gravel.

 

[Quaddog]

The original drains here were put in just over two hundred years ago, and a lot of them are still working. They were small stone culverts and they were a minimum six feet deep. Drainage was a skill and they seemed to catch the seams of water where it came up. They didn’t go in straight lines very often, so they’re difficult to find when they go wrong.

 

[Brisel]

Pea gravel in a trench doubles the cost of the job. I'd be interested what the maths is on halving the spacing is. Better if you can't mole drain, I'd imagine.

 

[Happy]

The original drains here were put in just over two hundred years ago, and a lot of them are still working. They were small stone culverts and they were a minimum six feet deep. Drainage was a skill and they seemed to catch the seams of water where it came up. They didn’t go in straight lines very often, so they’re difficult to find when they go wrong.

Amazing really isn’t it?
What else on the farm do any of us still have that is working 200 years later.

Currently got a new scheme going in at 10m with gravel. Quite frightening seeing 120t a day of gravel coming in on trucks and the stock pile ending up smaller at the end of the day.

Fixing the odd bit yourself is fine but I leave the whole replacement schemes to the experts.

 

[goldeneagle]

Think you need to install the drain to suit the soil and subsurface you are going through.

Drains we have put in recently drains the subsoil as the water boils up from the subsurface so no stone used. Don’t have much clay so infiltration to subsoil is not restricted.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

I always think that the old clay pots will draw water but plastic pipe requires stone in clay subsoils, clay pipes are still available.

 

[D14]

We are at the point now that we are needing to start some reasonable schemes instead of just patching as we go. we probably need to drain the whole of a 30 acre field and then there are other wet spots that just need a pipe ran through.
There are a few options such as getting a contractor with trencher in (better for big jobs), use an excavator (probably uses more gravel which is a pricey bit now), buy a trencher (probably the most palatable option for long term) or hire a trencher.
Looking at the cost of pipe compared to gravel we could be better putting pipes in closer on schemes and omitting gravel (maybe use pipe with filter cloth on), this is mostly on silty sands and sandy loams. if we did this and used a trencher then we could still use gravel where the subsoil was higher clay content and at more risk of sealing over. But again there are lots of options.
Does any one have experience of running their own tracked trencher, or tractor mounted version.
Any opinions welcome.

A friend has drained 2500 ac himself over the last 50 years. He bought a very old trencher initially and more recently added a gps levelling system to it. He’s never used stone as he says it’s cheaper to redrain as he owns the trencher. That said he hasn’t had to redrain anything yet. He bought 100ac field this year and drained it in 5 days.

 

[Hjwise]

When my father drained his farm 40-50 years ago he was reliably advised that it’s better to to put more drains in than using gravel. He decided to stick with the wider gap (1 chain) and not bother with the gravel. It’s worked well for 50 years but is starting to give trouble now (mainly OSR roots). When you find the answer please let me know, as I will copy you.

 

[Richard III]

Plastic clogs with silt quickly here, 10-20 year life with no gravel, 40 years with gravel - but can also be revived somewhat after that with a jetter. The local drainage contractor charges £2000/acre for stoned drains @ 10m spacings and doesn't rate filter socks. The old Victorian drains lasted over 100 years before they started blocking with silt, but the few machine laid clays we put in have filled with silt in no time.

I spend most of my drainage time reconnecting where the Victorian system was cut through with un stoned plastic in the 70's and jetting it where I can.

 

[z.man]

Pea gravel in a trench doubles the cost of the job. I'd be interested what the maths is on halving the spacing is. Better if you can't mole drain, I'd imagine.

7m spacing laterals with 80mm plastic £1080 per acre, if needing new leaders @150mm (it’s wet up here) + another £500 an acre approximately, any backfill would be more was quoted this last week

 

[DanniAgro]

Intersting to hear that quite a few schemes have been put in without gravel. On clay it's the only way to connect subsoiling to the drain pipes.