Drunk lambs

[NZDan]

Any one got any ideas what may cause 8 month old lambs to be wobbly in the back end, a bit like they're pee'd.
They're grazing a swamp so its quite wet, grazing is mainly Browntop, plantain and lotus. Its 5 weeks since they were drenched, but they're clean and healthy looking, I don't think its grass staggers as the worst affected ones pure Finns and they're normally quite resistant to Grass staggers. The ewe lambs grazing next door seem ok, but it is hard to tell out in the paddock.The worst affected ones also appear quite big in the abdomen, but having said that finns are quite 'Gutty" anyways and there is gutty ones that are fine and affected ones that aren't gutty. There is no history of Fluke there, but that's not saying its not about.

 

[Yale]

OK.

What could it be?

Either,they have eaten something which is toxic,have a deficiency or the other option maybe something parasitic.

I'd start with the first one.

Would a heavy metal poisoning have these symptoms?

Anyone dumped maybe a lead battery in the water but if it was lead poisoning then I don't know if these would be the symptoms.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

NZDan, is there any Paspalum with the seedhead around that the sheep can eat, could be paspalum poisoning. I've only seen it in beef cattle and very similar to ryegrass staggers, the difference with ryegrass staggers , when they get stressed, they fall over either left or right (ie only one direction) where as ryegrass staggers the will fall over left and right.

 

[NZDan]

NZDan, is there any Paspalum with the seedhead around that the sheep can eat, could be paspalum poisoning. I've only seen it in beef cattle and very similar to ryegrass staggers, the difference with ryegrass staggers , when they get stressed, they fall over either left or right (ie only one direction) where as ryegrass staggers the will fall over left and right.

No Paspalum that I no of, but there are lots and lots of different plants, so it could be some thing they've eaten.... I'll have to ask the park rangers.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

No Paspalum that I no of, but there are lots and lots of different plants, so it could be some thing they've eaten.... I'll have to ask the park rangers.

Not this park ranger, then just watch out for the bears......

 

[JD-Kid]

how bad in the back end not sway back ?? low in copper ...ummm platain is high in copper tho so maybe not

 

[hoggs]

we used to have to jab ewes with copper to stop swayback in the lambs. but one year long time ago lambs had swayback after ewes had copper, if i remember right i had blood tests done and i think it was too much of molybenadium or something locking the copper up. not sure if i had to give iodine to help but cant remember properly.

 

[NZDan]

Vets coming out Thursday to test for Copper and Iron.

 

[S J H]

I'd move them to another field. We lost 6 ewe lambs last year to something poisonous.

 

[NZDan]

I'd move them to another field. We lost 6 ewe lambs last year to something poisonous.

No empty fields to move them to.

 

[JD-Kid]

blood tests ??? for copper will give a hint follow up with livers if yer can ..my own view is levels are out of date based on old tests with sheep doing lower outputs
are they finn's ??
have heard north canty can be high in iron in some places

 

[NZDan]

blood tests ??? for copper will give a hint follow up with livers if yer can ..my own view is levels are out of date based on old tests with sheep doing lower outputs
are they finn's ??
have heard north canty can be high in iron in some places

Mixture of Finns and Finn X Texels, my gut feel is high iron causing low copper, test is really just to make sure I don't kill them with copper.
Might even be able to feed a bit of PKE to them. lol

 

[JD-Kid]

what copper yer thinking of useing ?

 

[NZDan]

what copper yer thinking of useing ?

Haven't thought that far ahead. Any ideas? They're heading to Nelson for the winter in 3 weeks.

 

[JD-Kid]

Haven't thought that far ahead. Any ideas? They're heading to Nelson for the winter in 3 weeks.

like i was saying to yer don't stab them sheep can react to copper injection by dropping dead ,, copper oxide rods safer for longer term ,, drench may lift levels for short term if away on grazeing

 

[NZDan]

Blood test results back. Copper levels are normal, have now found out about an affected ewe lamb I sold about three weeks ago. Vets really scratching his head now as the symptoms did fit copper perfectly

 

[JD-Kid]

ummmm @neilo the moly lock up thing what happens with bloods ??

keep in mind NZDan the signs for too much look the same as too little one that went up north has it had zinc there is some zinc copper thing in the liver but think it's high copper leading to low zinc that can make them more at risk of photo toxen things

but high zinc can toss out copper levels in liver

 

[neilo]

ummmm @neilo the moly lock up thing what happens with bloods ??

In our case, we were getting lambs dieing from scouring to death from copper deficiency, whilst bloods were showing OK copper levels. Soil & forage tests showed sky high molybdenum levels, making the Cu unavailable. Cu drench and/or bolusing has transformed performance here. That was with pure Charollais lambs, that are generally as prone to Cu toxicity as Texels.

Incidentally, I have my pedigree lambs on the same field this year, with an Advantage feeder giving them 1/2lb of whole barley (so low in mins & TEs) alongside grazing. They have had a cheap TE drench contains Cu fortnightly (with nemo drench to date) and I have never seen them so well. Ultrasound scanning tomorrow, but VERY pleased with how they look & handle.without the Cu input, they would be falling apart.

 

[NZDan]

In our case, we were getting lambs dieing from scouring to death from copper deficiency, whilst bloods were showing OK copper levels. Soil & forage tests showed sky high molybdenum levels, making the Cu unavailable. Cu drench and/or bolusing has transformed performance here. That was with pure Charollais lambs, that are generally as prone to Cu toxicity as Texels.

Incidentally, I have my pedigree lambs on the same field this year, with an Advantage feeder giving them 1/2lb of whole barley (so low in mins & TEs) alongside grazing. They have had a cheap TE drench contains Cu fortnightly (with nemo drench to date) and I have never seen them so well. Ultrasound scanning tomorrow, but VERY pleased with how they look & handle.without the Cu input, they would be falling apart.

Mine had no sign of scours, and look ok but maybe be not gaining as fast as possible, I've drenched them with a min drench containing copper, and will wait and see.

 

[Global ovine]

Past experience usually makes us think those things first. Minerals would not be my first thought, but plant toxins given they are in unusual grazing. There are many plants out there that can affect the nervous system so cannot be detected easily like a digestive problem resulting in scours.
Sometimes sheep become immune to these toxins with exposure, such as hemlock. I have seen rams that lived on hemlock quite happily, but you couldn't dog them more than 100 yards without them falling over.
Genetically Finns are quite different to British breeds, as seen in their ability to mobilise calcium in late pregnany hence making them immune from prolapse and twin lamb disease. They may not handle some common plant toxins that British breeds have evolved to handle.