Ecotricity and Sparsholt

[delilah]

As an Ecotricity customer we have just received their newsletter, which includes details of their first 'green gas' plant at Sparsholt.

https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-green-energy/our-green-gas/what-is-green-gas

My knee-jerk reaction is to be opposed to it, and to tell Ecotricity - whose boss Dale Vince is well known for his vegan views - that they should stick to windmills and PV. He clearly sees this as a marketing plus for Ecotricity, as well as genuinely believing it is the way forward.

Anyone on here involved in providing the feedstock ? Do you see it as being able to exist alongside livestock agriculture ? Will Ecotricity even allow it to do so ? To read the blurb it would suggest that no manure will be used in growing the grass ? Blue bag then ?
All thoughts welcome before I contact them.

 

[SteveHants]

Aren't you better off asking Sparsholt these questions?

 

[delilah]

Maybe, but would guess that they would be compromised in an objective response if they have a financial tie in with Ecotricity ? Am as interested in peoples thoughts on the principle as much as this specific, Ecotricity see this as the first of many.

 

[Barleycorn]

Seems bloody stupid to me to have the plant on a dairy farm and not use the waste from the cattle. Also I was told they won't use the kitchen waste from the student's canteen. Just another vegan con in my mind.

 

[SteveHants]

Maybe, but would guess that they would be compromised in an objective response if they have a financial tie in with Ecotricity ? Am as interested in peoples thoughts on the principle as much as this specific, Ecotricity see this as the first of many.

Given that Ag courses are their bread and butter, you'd have thought they would have some sort of view on this and it's effect on the industry.....

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Well that link throws up far more questions than it answers. With some very dubious statements that look like vegan propaganda.

 

[Princess Pooper]

I must admit, the concept of 'vegan gas' makes we want to give up the will to live.

 

[primmiemoo]

All this nonsense about vegan gas makes me wonder why isn't every single sewage treatment works also generating electricity?

 

[Swarfmonkey]

Anyone on here involved in providing the feedstock ?

That's where it get's interesting, so i'll play with the numbers.

Winchester City Council documentation say that it's a 6MW facility. Farm Advisory Service (FAS) reckons that grass silage with 29% DM produces 180m3/ton of gas during AD, of which 50% will be methane. So that's 90m3 per ton equating to 900Kwh of energy (FAS state 10KWh per ton of methane). A 6MW facility operating at 100% produces 52560MWh per year, and to do that would require 58,400 tons of grass silage. Looking at the Shortbread Senate's Ag survey from a couple of years ago (first result in the Google search, so I used it), they reckon a silage yield of 19 tons per hectare, so you'd need 3073 hectares (7593.548 acres) of grassland just to provide feedstock for the AD plant. It'll also need quite a sizeable (and expensive) CDR plant to deal with the large volume of CO2 that's produced as well, and they ain't cheap to build or run.

TL/DR - some vegtard (and if that's not a word, it should be), wants to take more than 7500 acres out of food production. What a complete boat anchor.

 

[Princess Pooper]

All this nonsense about vegan gas makes me wonder why isn't every single sewage treatment works also generating electricity?

Some of them are. Severn Trent have substantial wind turbines eg Stoke Bardolph and Birstall in E Midlands, as well as AD units. A relative works at an Anglian Water sewage plant where they have an AD unit. Sewage works use a lot of energy.

 

[primmiemoo]

Some of them are. Severn Trent have substantial wind turbines eg Stoke Bardolph and Birstall in E Midlands, as well as AD units. A relative works at an Anglian Water sewage plant where they have an AD unit. Sewage works use a lot of energy.

Would it be feasible to add AD to smaller works, eg., thinking of rural areas, for populations of 500 - 1000, say?

 

[delilah]

Given that Ag courses are their bread and butter

or bread and margarine if Dale has his way ?

That's where it get's interesting, so i'll play with the numbers.

Winchester City Council documentation say that it's a 6MW facility. Farm Advisory Service (FAS) reckons that grass silage with 29% DM produces 180m3/ton of gas during AD, of which 50% will be methane. So that's 90m3 per ton equating to 900Kwh of energy (FAS state 10KWh per ton of methane). A 6MW facility operating at 100% produces 52560MWh per year, and to do that would require 58,400 tons of grass silage. Looking at the Shortbread Senate's Ag survey from a couple of years ago (first result in the Google search, so I used it), they reckon a silage yield of 19 tons per hectare, so you'd need 3073 hectares (7593.548 acres) of grassland just to provide feedstock for the AD plant. It'll also need quite a sizeable (and expensive) CDR plant to deal with the large volume of CO2 that's produced as well, and they ain't cheap to build or run.

TL/DR - some vegtard (and if that's not a word, it should be), wants to take more than 7500 acres out of food production. What a complete boat anchor.

Thank you - I am going to point the editor of the Ecotricity newsletter to this thread and ask him to respond to that.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

May I suggest a different approach? Ask the editor of that newsletter how many acres of land they'd have to take out of food production in order to supply the plant with all the grass required for it to run at 100%.

That then gives you something to use against them, written by their own hand .

 

[Brisel]

All this nonsense about vegan gas makes me wonder why isn't every single sewage treatment works also generating electricity?

As above, many do. All the major Wessex Water works have AD plants. 90% of the sewage cake I get from them is digestate. It was more about the visible environmental profile than a money making scheme for WW.

 

[Hindsight]

All this nonsense about vegan gas makes me wonder why isn't every single sewage treatment works also generating electricity?

Anglian Water tanker solids from rural dewatering treatment plants serving hamlets and villages to large scale sewage plants that have AD on site. The solid is then returned to agriculture via their subsidiary business Nutri Bio.

 

[Hindsight]

As above, many do. All the major Wessex Water works have AD plants. 90% of the sewage cake I get from them is digestate. It was more about the visible environmental profile than a money making scheme for WW.

You beat me to the reply.

 

[Brisel]

Vote with your feet @delilah and change to a less vegan supplier!

 

[delilah]

Vote with your feet @delilah and change to a less vegan supplier!

Have been with them since the early days and, this issue aside, am full of admiration for how he has broken into this market and made 'green' mainstream. And he likes his football. Have emailed asking the question posed by @Swarfmonkey , await reply.

 

[delilah]

May I suggest a different approach? Ask the editor of that newsletter how many acres of land they'd have to take out of food production in order to supply the plant with all the grass required for it to run at 100%.

That then gives you something to use against them, written by their own hand .

Had a reply. They don't know yet (or if they do know, they're not saying...).

Thanks for getting in touch and my apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

We are still in our planning stages for Sparsholt College so I'm afraid I'm not sure of the answer to that questions yet. I'll pop a link below that will allow you to keep up to date with our progress on the mill.

https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/our-gr...ur-green-gasmills/sparsholt-college-hampshire

Best wishes,

Sophie
Customer Support Team

 

[Swarfmonkey]

I can't say i'm surprised at that response. Does contradict their own planning documents though. I've been doing a bit of digging on the subject (killing time at work - which is very stop/start at the best of times, and at the mo it's stop), and it's fair to say that their maths just doesn't add up.

In the supporting document that accompanied the planning application they stated the following:

3.37 Of the order of 3,000-3500 acres of land being farmed for grasses or rye grass as a break crop in rotation is required to service the 54k tonne model – most desirable for carbon footprint purposes located within a 15 km radius of the facility. This area represents approximately 5-6% of the available farmland within that catchment

54000 tons of grass from 3500 acres. Converting that to figures my brain can work with, that's 38.1 tons of grass per hectare. Do you believe that's possible, especially when they say that it would primarily be from "marginal grassland pasture"? I certainly don't, given what i've read about yields.