Efficient or underpowered? Changes over the years...

[benny6910]

And 7 ton of spuds bought a new tractor mid 1960's. No wonder they got changed more often........
The newer my gear, the more trouble it's been. Perhaps others have had more positive experiences.

I remember my dad saying to me when the wheat price was low” it’s a bad job when you carn’t buy a pair of work boots for a ton of wheat”

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Educate me.

How do chemicals compact land?

Quickly and easily. Just about everything we do, does. As with any living thing, I guess?

But when you get the poisons and the salty fertilisers and the big machines and the repetition, it's got a compounding effect.

A bit like when Sour Jock tags me

 

[Spud]

Quickly and easily. Just about everything we do, does. As with any living thing, I guess?

But when you get the poisons and the salty fertilisers and the big machines and the repetition, it's got a compounding effect.

A bit like when Sour Jock tags me

Not sure I agree there tbh.
I never had you down as a fully paid up member of the 'all pesticides are evil' club.
We can all do things better, for sure, but to say chemicals are more responsible for compaction than heavy machinery is a bit far fetched.

Heavy rainfall onto bare ground is the greatest creater of compaction, in my view, which can obviously be mitigated to a point by having constant ground cover. One mistake I think many make with cover crops is getting them too thick, then dessicating them too early in an attempt to get ground dry enough to sow. Living roots do so much more than dead ones. As ever, there is a balance.

 

[glasshouse]

Pre harvest roundup does immense damage as everything is killed, so the soil becomes very wet
A “living” stubble is miles better for traffic and wildlife

 

[Spud]

Pre harvest roundup does immense damage as everything is killed, so the soil becomes very wet
A “living” stubble is miles better for traffic and wildlife

I'm not a fan of routine pre harvest roundup. It has a place,for sure, laid crops, late oats, osr. But not necessary on broadacre cereals.

In many situations the combine has seen serious upgrades, when arguably the money would be better spent on the dryer. In these parts it's rare not to dry wheat, and not unusual to dry everything

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Not sure I agree there tbh.
I never had you down as a fully paid up member of the 'all pesticides are evil' club.
We can all do things better, for sure, but to say chemicals are more responsible for compaction than heavy machinery is a bit far fetched.

Heavy rainfall onto bare ground is the greatest creater of compaction, in my view, which can obviously be mitigated to a point by having constant ground cover. One mistake I think many make with cover crops is getting them too thick, then dessicating them too early in an attempt to get ground dry enough to sow. Living roots do so much more than dead ones. As ever, there is a balance.

There is a balance things like CTF can greatly reduce the effect of heavy mass, especially on wetter land.
But being extractive was more difficult 40 years ago than it is today.

One of the field trials showed that minute doses of glypho had an incredible effect with releasing soil compaction, right beside it the urea plot showed a big increase. The TSP plot was by far the worst though.

It puts me in an odd spot, I've already put 2400 tonnes of fertiliser out the door of my truck this season, and as much lime.
I just put my "not my circus, not my clowns" hat on and do the job. But I still know it aint the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[glasshouse]

I'm not a fan of routine pre harvest roundup. It has a place,for sure, laid crops, late oats, osr. But not necessary on broadacre cereals.

In many situations the combine has seen serious upgrades, when arguably the money would be better spent on the dryer. In these parts it's rare not to dry wheat, and not unusual to dry everything

Sadly you are in the minority

 

[Flat 10]

Sadly you are in the minority

Not in the sunny south.

 

[glasshouse]

Not in the sunny south.

Yes, its rather different up here

 

[Bury the Trash]

I remember my dad saying to me when the wheat price was low” it’s a bad job when you carn’t buy a pair of work boots for a ton of wheat”

would that be Redbacks?

 

[Goweresque]

That effectively means that we're farming four times more acres per man, and four times the acres per tractor with 28% less power per acre.

And wheat was £105/tonne in 1980 vs £150-60 today (OK its on a bit of a tear towards £200 at the moment but it was £120 only a year or two ago, and 2021 crop futures are £160ish), and £1 then is worth £4.32 today. More proof (if it were ever needed) that virtually all productivity gains in farming accumulate to everyone other than the producer. The consumer gains the most, followed by all the businesses between the consumer and the producer (processors and retailers), and finally the farming supplies industry. Last of all comes Johnny Farmer. So why anyone representing the farming industry ever suggests that farming should work hard to improve productivity I have no idea.

 

[Lowland1]

There is a balance things like CTF can greatly reduce the effect of heavy mass, especially on wetter land.
But being extractive was more difficult 40 years ago than it is today.

One of the field trials showed that minute doses of glypho had an incredible effect with releasing soil compaction, right beside it the urea plot showed a big increase. The TSP plot was by far the worst though.

It puts me in an odd spot, I've already put 2400 tonnes of fertiliser out the door of my truck this season, and as much lime.
I just put my "not my circus, not my clowns" hat on and do the job. But I still know it aint the best thing since sliced bread.

In our system we can see that too much fertilizer is damaging the soil. We grow 3 crops per year on one application of fertilizer about 60 kgs per acre of a blend plus about 60 kgs per acre of Nitrogen and Sulphur as a top dressing on beans the other crops of broccoli, maize or cabbage recieve nothing they mop up the residual fertility good cultivation’s are very important as the bigger the root system the more the roots can glean from the soil because all residues are returned to the soil our soil organic matter is increasing every year. Potatoes get a bit more fertilizer up to 150 kgs an acre base dressing and a bout 20 tonnes an acre of muck. We rarely have less than a week between one crop finishing and another going in. We look at the local farmers growing similar crops and they are using a lot more fertilizer and a lot more chemicals and their soil is getting poorer and poorer. We are always weeding but I think it’s because the more fertile the more it grows weeds but I reckon weed killers change soil biology and hence structure and the worst of all is roundup but without it we couldn’t grow anything on my Dads farm in England.

 

[benny6910]

would that be Redbacks?

No i don’t think redbacks made it onto Yorkshire till about 2007, definitely not in our local hardware store anyway

 

[glasshouse]

In our system we can see that too much fertilizer is damaging the soil. We grow 3 crops per year on one application of fertilizer about 60 kgs per acre of a blend plus about 60 kgs per acre of Nitrogen and Sulphur as a top dressing on beans the other crops of broccoli, maize or cabbage recieve nothing they mop up the residual fertility good cultivation’s are very important as the bigger the root system the more the roots can glean from the soil because all residues are returned to the soil our soil organic matter is increasing every year. Potatoes get a bit more fertilizer up to 150 kgs an acre base dressing and a bout 20 tonnes an acre of muck. We rarely have less than a week between one crop finishing and another going in. We look at the local farmers growing similar crops and they are using a lot more fertilizer and a lot more chemicals and their soil is getting poorer and poorer. We are always weeding but I think it’s because the more fertile the more it grows weeds but I reckon weed killers change soil biology and hence structure and the worst of all is roundup but without it we couldn’t grow anything of my Dads farm in England.

I remember we sprayed s half field with roundup after barley about 1980. The other half was potatoes
The whole field was then sown with wheat
Which was a total failure on the bit sprayed with roundup

 

[Bury the Trash]

I remember we sprayed s half field with roundup after barley about 1980. The other half was potatoes
The whole field was then sown with wheat
Which was a total failure on the bit sprayed with roundup

sprayed out some barley stubble with glypho back in sept had docks in and stuff coming big time as it hadnt had a bl herbi spray in crop.
sprayed it before volunteers had chance to sprout when it was dry, quite a lot of corn had been lost from combine,
Didnt actually get to plough /sow the field because of the wet since and funny thing is hardly any of the volunteers have come, ir the spray killed their beginning of germination almost totally.

 

[Spud]

sprayed out some barley stubble with glypho back in sept had docks in and stuff coming big time as it hadnt had a bl herbi spray in crop.
sprayed it before volunteers had chance to sprout when it was dry, quite a lot of corn had been lost from combine,
Didnt actually get to plough /sow the field because of the wet since and funny thing is hardly any of the volunteers have come, ir the spray killed their beginning of germination almost totally.

Was that not the point of spraying it, to kill the volunteers? In any case, why bother if you were going to plough it anyway?
You'd be surprised how little sprouting is required for glypho to work.

Do you use an agronomist? Glyphosate is benign as soon as it hits soil, it only kills green leaf, there is no residual effect.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Was that not the point of spraying it, to kill the volunteers? In any case, why bother if you were going to plough it anyway?
You'd be surprised how little sprouting is required for glypho to work.

Do you use an agronomist? Glyphosate is benign as soon as it hits soil, it only kills green leaf, there is no residual effect.

hmmm, just might kill a micro zoro or 2
yes we do have a agronomist , good one too, he knows what i want/don't want to do.

was going back to grass i didnt want docks in it. not a particularly big problem aactually with sheep as the keep them grazed down. not so good if you want to make hay.

fencing sheep as it happens right .....now so ...........................

i

 

[glasshouse]

Was that not the point of spraying it, to kill the volunteers? In any case, why bother if you were going to plough it anyway?
You'd be surprised how little sprouting is required for glypho to work.

Do you use an agronomist? Glyphosate is benign as soon as it hits soil, it only kills green leaf, there is no residual effect.

Well there must br something left that causes problems

 

[Spud]

Well there must br something left that causes problems

Have you scratch cultivated the surface? It's amazing how many shed barley heads are still sat on the surface in some uncultivated fields, unsprayed and not germinated, but in others, the slightest tickle has the field green over. Worth a crawl about.

 

[Lowland1]

The thing with roundup is kills all the green in the field so anything living on the roots of this green stuff suddenly has nothing to eat which does negate some of the claims made by no tillers using glyphosate that the soil biology is improved by no till.