Elderflower crop

[Rich59]

Hi,

I have developed a product that uses elderflowers and have started to go commercial. In the future from 2018 I would like to obtain them from new UK farm sources. In addition there is potential to develop single strain versions that would need to be cultivated in fields. A further development may be to develop a manufacturing plant on a farm site and set up a tourist attraction.

So, could you supply me and perhaps work towards development as outlined above? From my understanding there are a number of elderflower products developing that are beginning to seek UK sourced flowers. So, it would not just be me that would be seeking to purchase your crops.

 

[Steevo]

Tonnes of them to be found in the hedges. Common to see people picking them around here. Local drinks firm also has some grown under contract I believe.

Keith Challen of Belvoir Fruit Farms would also grow I believe. He used to be on here (or the previous!), though I'm unsure they'd supply others.

 

[Rich59]

Hi Steevo,

Absolutely, they are common. And, yes, Belvoir are not in a position to supply others.

I want to do this commercially, and picking commercially from the hedges on edges of farmland is not strictly permitted without permission, and is exposed to road pollution.

So, I'd like to appeal direct to farmers to consider supplying me. Do contact me by "conversation".

 

[Princess Pooper]

The problem is not the growing of them it is the picking. Pev Manners at Belvoir was quoted in local paper just last week saying he has not been able to produce as much as he could sell because the elderflower intake was down due to lack of pickers (basically not enough folks are now willing to wander the lanes picking elderflowers for a pittance, to supplement the plantations). I don't think there is a mechanised harvester even for the plantations at Belvoir yet? Nice project for someone, trying to adapt a picker from some other crop, the difficulty is most pick fruit which is easier to strip out than flowers (hops are flowers, but hang down from the bine so can be beaten off by fingers on the picking machine like a feather plucker).

With elderflower tonic and elderflower gin yes it is a growth area but with casual labour even harder to find now a bigger challenge than ever before to get them harvested.

 

[corkman2013]

I'm considering putting in a shelter belt made up of elderflower, I'm finding it difficult to get information on distance between plays. Fertility/soil requirements pruning etc. Anybody have any ideas

 

[corkman2013]

I have my own market locally,

 

[Rich59]

The problem is not the growing of them it is the picking.......

Hi Princess Pooper, If you had plentiful elderflowers (hedge or plantation) and picking the flowers by hand then how much could a reasonable worker pick (kg) per hour or day? What payment rate would need to be paid in current economy to get the job done do you think?

 

[Rich59]

Hand picking of crops is not always a barrier. Strawberries, wine grapes, salad crops. So, if the product is valuable enough I guess elderflower could be a commercial crop.

In the scenario I am exploring the product is a sparkling wine, so the crop may generate significant income.

Richard

 

[steveR]

Out of interest, does the Elderflower flower/fruit on old wood or new wood? Like most farm we have the stuff about (my daughter collects the flowers for Champagne and Cordial) but I've never looked at the growing characteristics.

It would seem to me, that for any form of commercial harvesting (hand or machine) you need coppiced plants producing crop up to about 5ft high?

 

[Rich59]

Out of interest, does the Elderflower flower/fruit on old wood or new wood? Like most farm we have the stuff about (my daughter collects the flowers for Champagne and Cordial) but I've never looked at the growing characteristics.

It would seem to me, that for any form of commercial harvesting (hand or machine) you need coppiced plants producing crop up to about 5ft high?

Hi Steve, Elders fruit/ flower from ripened spurs along 2nd/ 3rd year wood. Yes essentially coppicing in 2-3 different variations is the way they are grown commercially. With nitrogen feeds the stems can grow 2-3m from the ground but bend over with the weight of flowers and fruit so can be reached.

If your family were to pick them for sale next year we could negotiate a price?

 

[Princess Pooper]

Hi Princess Pooper, If you had plentiful elderflowers (hedge or plantation) and picking the flowers by hand then how much could a reasonable worker pick (kg) per hour or day? What payment rate would need to be paid in current economy to get the job done do you think?

https://www.belvoirfruitfarms.co.uk/elderflower/picking/ but if they were short then £2/kg is obviously not enough incentive for people!

 

[Princess Pooper]

I'm considering putting in a shelter belt made up of elderflower, I'm finding it difficult to get information on distance between plays. Fertility/soil requirements pruning etc. Anybody have any ideas

Elder pretty draughty in winter ! Also cattle and sheep love eating it so they'll have to be fenced out!

 

[steveR]

Hi Steve, Elders fruit/ flower from ripened spurs along 2nd/ 3rd year wood. Yes essentially coppicing in 2-3 different variations is the way they are grown commercially. With nitrogen feeds the stems can grow 2-3m from the ground but bend over with the weight of flowers and fruit so can be reached.

If your family were to pick them for sale next year we could negotiate a price?

Thanks Rich, the cultivation is more or less what I though it must be ;-)

Sadly, I very much doubt that I/we have the time (or inclination) to pick elderflower to be honest! Most of the trees are not that accessible, and there are not that many... My daughter has what I can only describe as a "foraging" gene in her, and likes harvesting such produce for home consumption only at weekends or when she has time after work. Sorry I cannot be of more help.

 

[steveR]

https://www.belvoirfruitfarms.co.uk/elderflower/picking/ but if they were short then £2/kg is obviously not enough incentive for people!

Not surprised, I have picked them a bit with my daughter, and they don't weigh much when you have a bucket full.... Possibly in a properly coppiced and managed orchard it would be more viable?

I wonder what the commercial yields would be like... My concern like you suggest, is what availability of pickers there will be 2-3 years down the line?

 

[corkman2013]

Elder pretty draughty in winter ! Also cattle and sheep love eating it so they'll have to be fenced out!

Thanks for that. Didn't know that about livestock thankfully I don't have any. I'm mainly looking to slow the wind during the growing season.

 

[Rich59]

https://www.belvoirfruitfarms.co.uk/elderflower/picking/ but if they were short then £2/kg is obviously not enough incentive for people!

http://www.greensofdevon.com/shop-elderflower.php - Greens marketed their fresh flowers about 80p+ a flower head. At 10g a flower head that comes to £80 a kilo.

As a potential bulk buyer I can't go that high, but I could look at multiplying up Belvoir's £2/kg

 

[Rich59]

I was working out more how to finance growing elderflowers. I think it might work if the grower gets paid £1.50/kg. The buyer pays this and also pays/ provides the pickers.

I ran some estimates on expected crop. I have trialed growing on my allotment. I think a conservative estimate of the crop would be something like 20+kg per acre. So, that looks like a payment of £300+ per acre from buyer to grower.

So I am looking for someone to grow some selected varieties for me, useful for my elderflower champagnes, but also good for cordial making.

 

[ste stuart]

Hi rich,

Firstly did you miss-type some of your figures? As above you say you'll pay £1.50 per kilo at a yield of 20kg per acre. Forgive my feeble maths but I only make that £30 not £300.

Where in the country are you?

Ste

 

[Rich59]

Hi rich,

Firstly did you miss-type some of your figures? As above you say you'll pay £1.50 per kilo at a yield of 20kg per acre. Forgive my feeble maths but I only make that £30 not £300.

Where in the country are you?

Ste

Apologies. Yes, yield I am working on is 200kg per acre. I know a site cultivating about 10 acres and yielding about 2000kg.

I am on the borders of London and Kent.

 

[Rich59]

Below is my updated situation and hopefully got my facts about right.

----

I'm looking to work with someone who would be willing/ able to grow a few acres of elderberry bushes.

My name is Richard and I have been an active member of BushcraftUK for many years. Increasingly I have been exploring the commercial side of making country wines. I've developed a great recipe for elderflower champagne, and now have a marketed version using wild picked sources. However, I'm currently looking at single variety wines (just as most grape wines are from single or limited blend varieties). I have identified a handful of suitable strains. What is lacking is being able to grow them at scale. I have got good contacts who can advise on cultivation.

Soil wise they like it moist, adequately drained and fertile. Full sun. Thrive best with added manure each year. Pruning can be pretty casual – levelling the plant to a metre every 3yrs. Mowing between rows is needed.

Working out how to finance growing elderflowers, I think it might work if the grower gets paid perhaps between £1.50 and £5 per kg. The buyer pays this and also pays/ provides the pickers.

I ran some estimates on expected crop. I have trialed growing on my allotment and I have a contact growing them on a 10 acre site. I think a conservative estimate of the crop would be something like 200+kg per acre. So, that looks like a payment of £300 to £1,000 per acre per year from buyer to grower. In addition you might get back your own wine at trade price and market it locally for further enjoyment and profit.

So I am looking for someone to grow some selected varieties for me, useful for my elderflower champagnes, but also good for cordial making and spreading native forest plants into the fields.

Perks of the role would include a few free bottles of the champagne each year.

If interested then please get in touch.

Richard
[email protected]
https://renegadeandlongton.com/