ELMS - can we influence it?

[onesiedale]

ELMS is nearly upon us ,but none of us know exactly how it will hinder or benefit us (or the environment) either financially or practically. DEFRA don't know either.

What messages and advice do we need to send out to the politicians, advisors, media and influencers to make sure that farming and farmers are not left out of this Public Goods and Services exercise?

After all, it is the landscape that we live and work in

 

[kfpben]

I’ve been trying to influence it for three years!

Chew the ear off your MP (as long as you agree with me haha!)

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Ok Angus, I'll kick off with:

Tell us what measurable OUTCOMES you want, not how we should get there.

And a ballpark figure for what you'll pay for them so we can plan our business.

 

[Sid]

I'm trying!

Hard work but I'm trying!

 

[onesiedale]

I'm trying!

Hard work but I'm trying!

So where, or who, is not listening? Where have we collectively got to target the message?
Reading TFF , all the answers are here amongst the threads. I guess the easy way would be to get @DEFRA to come and join the conversation on here.( But clearly they haven't opened an account here yet)
As I see it, all the various focus groups that have been held on zoom will have a small effect.
The big headline grabbing action is 30,000ha of trees per year. Yet we all know that 30,000 ha of trees isn't the right answer
In 2021, Glasgow hosts the climate summit. There will be plenty of disruptive agendas put out before then, but which one will be listened to? The ones that shout loudest, the ones with most money? Or the ones that are responsible for managing most land?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

So where, or who, is not listening? Where have we collectively got to target the message?
Reading TFF , all the answers are here amongst the threads. I guess the easy way would be to get @DEFRA to come and join the conversation on here.( But clearly they haven't opened an account here yet)
As I see it, all the various focus groups that have been held on zoom will have a small effect.
The big headline grabbing action is 30,000ha of trees per year. Yet we all know that 30,000 ha of trees isn't the right answer
In 2021, Glasgow hosts the climate summit. There will be plenty of disruptive agendas put out before then, but which one will be listened to? The ones that shout loudest, the ones with most money? Or the ones that are responsible for managing most land?

Maybe there should be a TFF presence at COP 26!

 

[Formatted]

There are absolutely loads of ways to get involved with shaping ELMs, there are discussion groups (often advertised on TFF), there were two national consultations, contact MP, several of the key decision-makers are on twitter and they'll respond if you tweet them, attend conferences where they are talking about ELMs, volunteer for trials, get involved with organisations like the LEAF, FWAG etc who are helping shape policy etc etc

 

[7610 super q]

Shun it.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

It's far too reductionist to even have a glimmer of hope of doing much good. I can see it will be right up the alley of some.... the "tell us exactly what to do for the free money" type of operator

- the question is, do you actually want to be competing with those sorts of farmers anyway?

Following "recipes for success" is 100% what has foocked things for the family farm, killing innovation and observational skills that are so needed to manage something as dynamic and complex as we all know.

Outcomes, objectives... not what some committee has heard might be good for the environment.

 

[DrWazzock]

I fear we have become clients of the big state hanging on their every word and waiting for them to take the initiative.
Why not plan your own destiny and take responsibility for it? Why rely on one size fits all schemes dreamt up by those with no real experience of the job on the ground. Let’s show people what can be done by private enterprise and initiative in all sorts of different ways.
I won’t be participitating in ELMS. I have enough to do sorting my own business out before recommending what others should do. And as far as I’m concerned large scale rewilding and such like is just total cobblers that will never happen as it’s “unsustainsble” from a humano economic perspective. We are too far down the line and have too large a human population to wind the clock back that far,
Let’s just do what we do better and more sustainably, cut the soul destroying bits and the dead wood and crack on.

 

[DrWazzock]

And I don’t want think we can really influence it anyway. There is a political ideology at its heart, a driving force. They say they are consulting but I doubt they will listen. I can’t remember a time when the government did listen. Except maybe when they reduced tractor road tax to zero after the fuel protests. Everything else has been “like it or lump it”.

 

[primmiemoo]

Somebody must be getting feedback about the Scheme. Bio-Waste Spreader in Private Eye sounds concerned that current users of systems that are beneficial not only in delivering Public Goods, but feeding the Nation as well are going to be excluded from it!

Madness if that's true!

 

[Farma Parma]

I fear we have become clients of the big state hanging on their every word and waiting for them to take the initiative.
Why not plan your own destiny and take responsibility for it? Why rely on one size fits all schemes dreamt up by those with no real experience of the job on the ground. Let’s show people what can be done by private enterprise and initiative in all sorts of different ways.
I won’t be participitating in ELMS. I have enough to do sorting my own business out before recommending what others should do. And as far as I’m concerned large scale rewilding and such like is just total cobblers that will never happen as it’s “unsustainsble” from a humano economic perspective. We are too far down the line and have too large a human population to wind the clock back that far,
Let’s just do what we do better and more sustainably, cut the soul destroying bits and the dead wood and crack on.

your very lucky if you can Farm without that sub annually & obvioulsy have other sources of income which is great but unfortunately the bulk of us havnt
progressing with our local test n trials project with it all & yes some bits i like & some i dont but kind of have to make the best of it id say or jobs finished totally for
us pure tenants. The rent reducing rent task will get long winded likely but thats coming also.

 

[Farma Parma]

And I don’t want think we can really influence it anyway. There is a political ideology at its heart, a driving force. They say they are consulting but I doubt they will listen. I can’t remember a time when the government did listen. Except maybe when they reduced tractor road tax to zero after the fuel protests. Everything else has been “like it or lump it”.

They are listening i can assure you but your mostly correct & they only have the budget they have to share amongst us all.

 

[Farma Parma]

I fear we have become clients of the big state hanging on their every word and waiting for them to take the initiative.
Why not plan your own destiny and take responsibility for it? Why rely on one size fits all schemes dreamt up by those with no real experience of the job on the ground. Let’s show people what can be done by private enterprise and initiative in all sorts of different ways.
I won’t be participitating in ELMS. I have enough to do sorting my own business out before recommending what others should do. And as far as I’m concerned large scale rewilding and such like is just total cobblers that will never happen as it’s “unsustainsble” from a humano economic perspective. We are too far down the line and have too large a human population to wind the clock back that far,
Let’s just do what we do better and more sustainably, cut the soul destroying bits and the dead wood and crack on.

i think just to add if this place was mind all bought n paid for id poss shun the whole elms thing also.
id just farm away & take my chances

 

[Bootneck]

Seems like there's a few people that have access to DEFRA etc trying to shape it to suit their own farms, and not giving away any information about their meetings and discussions. I don't like this back room dealing, I think all farmers should be made aware of what the proposals are.

 

[Farma Parma]

Seems like there's a few people that have access to DEFRA etc trying to shape it to suit their own farms, and not giving away any information about their meetings and discussions. I don't like this back room dealing, I think all farmers should be made aware of what the proposals are.

iam not 100% sure if i can openly discuss our project but until i know diff id rather not.
But i will say this there is nothing to hide from & if some of what iam part off gets put through to the rest of you, honestly just embrace it
its not all that bad

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Jeremy Clarkson is as usual hilarious, provocative and spot on in his Sunday Times Magazine piece today, about ELMS.

 

[7610 super q]

When are the lowly peasants going to get any useful information about what's in store? Will it be soon ?
The phrase " public goods " can only be used for so long.

 

[Farma Parma]

Jeremy Clarkson is as usual hilarious, provocative and spot on in his Sunday Times Magazine piece today, about ELMS.

bet its good you got a link by any chance? its ok for him tho he is just playing at being a farmer & he can afford to loose the lot
Still like the man he says how things are & ive nowt against anyone for that