ELMS in the real world.

[delilah]

Have just been having a read of some current threads:

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/worsening-blackgrass-ryegrass-problem.347526/

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...-permanent-pasture-without-glyphosate.347601/

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/blackgrass-chemical-attack.347314/

It strikes me that we are heading towards a bit of an issue here.
I read the queries, comments and suggestions from farmers on these threads, about how to best respond to variables such as weather, ground conditions, pests and disease.
Variables that change weekly and daily, never mind annually, and as such require quick thinking and – often – variance from original plans.
And I am left thinking: How do the SFI options on offer, which are characterized by being rigid,prescriptive and long term, fit into the real world of farming ?
Can we actually make a distinction between arable land and grassland ? Can we commit to managing any given field to set parameters of soil disturbance and OM application ? Can we commit to cutting for silage past a specified date ? The list goes on, and on.

How do folks view it ? Am I seeing problems where they don’t exist ? Or does @Nick Adams have the truth of it ?

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-future-of-arable-farming.346629/#post-7577175

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ve lost more money and created more stress for myself by promising stuff up front than by any other action I have ever taken. It’s a horrible feeling caught between bad weather and a contract to supply. I have dabbled in pollinator strips this spring for my own interest, not sub. Glad I’m not being inspected on them and drawing an income dependent on that inspection. No, I’ll stick to selling stuff when it’s in the shed or ring.

 

[Bald Rick]

Have just been having a read of some current threads:

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/worsening-blackgrass-ryegrass-problem.347526/

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...-permanent-pasture-without-glyphosate.347601/

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/blackgrass-chemical-attack.347314/

It strikes me that we are heading towards a bit of an issue here.
I read the queries, comments and suggestions from farmers on these threads, about how to best respond to variables such as weather, ground conditions, pests and disease.
Variables that change weekly and daily, never mind annually, and as such require quick thinking and – often – variance from original plans.
And I am left thinking: How do the SFI options on offer, which are characterized by being rigid,prescriptive and long term, fit into the real world of farming ?
Can we actually make a distinction between arable land and grassland ? Can we commit to managing any given field to set parameters of soil disturbance and OM application ? Can we commit to cutting for silage past a specified date ? The list goes on, and on.

How do folks view it ? Am I seeing problems where they don’t exist ? Or does @Nick Adams have the truth of it ?

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-future-of-arable-farming.346629/#post-7577175

You can NEVER farm by proscription i.e. set dates to complete/undertake certain actions.

Loonies in offices think this stuff up aided by Yes Men sitting on committees

Bollox to the lot of them

 

[J 1177]

You can NEVER farm by proscription i.e. set dates to complete/undertake certain actions.

Loonies in offices think this stuff up aided by Yes Men sitting on committees

Bollox to the lot of them

This is spot on, for my place to get the best out of the land so to speak i often have to change plans as the weather dictates.

 

[Barleymow]

You can NEVER farm by proscription i.e. set dates to complete/undertake certain actions.

Loonies in offices think this stuff up aided by Yes Men sitting on committees

Bollox to the lot of them

Would make life a lot easier if we could

 

[delilah]

You can NEVER farm by proscription i.e. set dates to complete/undertake certain actions.

Have just been trying to get my head round this one, which you have to comply with to get more than £10/acre on grassland.

Increase biodiversity and provide habitat for breeding birds by altering the timing of your silage cuts

Some ground we graze we aren't allowed to do anything to it after 15 March due to ground nesting, does that mean that you would have to cut for silage before 15 March ? Is that worthwhile for many people, maybe it is I don't know ? It can't mean later by 'altering the timing of your silage cuts' , it will be hay by the time nesting season over ?

 

[Young McDonald]

i think it means "please plant hedges AND don't combine harvester the skylarks" but the farmers around here (53N); have compartmentalised fodder fields (where the birds nest), grazing elsewhere; currently are leaving the birds alone (as any fine person would) as the grass is not even grown yet (- today being "june") ?.

 

[primmiemoo]

My gut feeling is that anyone, of any age group, with or without Organic, Conservation Grade, LEAF, CSS designation, etc, who has farmed "with Nature" (let's use current buzzwrods) will be automatically penalised for their pains.

Good farming needs art and craft. There's too much rigidity in a prescribed system that's put together by government economists whose models exclude living things.

 

[toquark]

From what I understand from ELMS, I'm surprised anyone down South is bothering with it.

I'd be very tempted to just farm the way you want to and let them keep their money.

 

[two-cylinder]

From what I understand from ELMS, I'm surprised anyone down South is bothering with it.

I'd be very tempted to just farm the way you want to and let them keep their money.

Play exactly in their hands

 

[Barleymow]

Play exactly in their hands

At least then they cant control us ,only legal things such as leraps. I assume we could cut hedges too when we liked

 

[toquark]

Play exactly in their hands

In what way? They think they can control you by dangling carrots. Just walk in the opposite direction and take the control back.

 

[delilah]

I'd be very tempted to just farm the way you want to and let them keep their money.

It's a valid point, but the thing is:
'them' is the taxpayer, it's their money, and they wont be keeping it if we don't apply, it will all go into the pockets of large landowners and their agents who do all the form filling for them.
I don't care what defra may say about it being a farmer friendly scheme, it's not, it's horrendously complex with a whole load of issues around it that will mean the vast majority of the money going to those who don't need it for no public good whatsoever.

 

[toquark]

it will all go into the pockets of large landowners and their agents who do all the form filling for them.

So let them have it. Good luck to them. In the meantime you don’t have to bother about their bull$hit forms and chasing an ever smaller piece of the pie.

There is incredible empowerment from sticking two fingers up and letting the rats get on with racing one another.

 

[primmiemoo]

So let them have it. Good luck to them. In the meantime you do to have to bother about their bull$hit forms and chasing an ever smaller piece of the pie.

There is incredible empowerment from sticking two fingers up and letting the rats get on with racing one another.

Some of us have responsibilities that preclude that privileged attitude.

 

[toquark]

Some of us have responsibilities that preclude that privileged attitude.

Privileged or otherwise, I think I know what I’d be doing with their stupid schemes. Nothing.

 

[D14]

Have just been having a read of some current threads:

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/worsening-blackgrass-ryegrass-problem.347526/

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index...-permanent-pasture-without-glyphosate.347601/

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/blackgrass-chemical-attack.347314/

It strikes me that we are heading towards a bit of an issue here.
I read the queries, comments and suggestions from farmers on these threads, about how to best respond to variables such as weather, ground conditions, pests and disease.
Variables that change weekly and daily, never mind annually, and as such require quick thinking and – often – variance from original plans.
And I am left thinking: How do the SFI options on offer, which are characterized by being rigid,prescriptive and long term, fit into the real world of farming ?
Can we actually make a distinction between arable land and grassland ? Can we commit to managing any given field to set parameters of soil disturbance and OM application ? Can we commit to cutting for silage past a specified date ? The list goes on, and on.

How do folks view it ? Am I seeing problems where they don’t exist ? Or does @Nick Adams have the truth of it ?

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-future-of-arable-farming.346629/#post-7577175

I think its workable and will be a matter of us not really having a choice. Prices of commodities is artificially high at the moment but won't be here to stay. I was talking to a restauranteur last night who has 4 places dotted about. All higher end stuff and he's been busier than ever since everything opened. In fact the first week back was his best ever in his career of 25 years. His meat and fish deliveries have shot up as has the alcohol side of things. His suppliers are telling him its a blip and they expect things to clam down early next year. Things like £1 added to the price of a steak to him really adds up over 4 x 150 seat restaurants. I can't remember exactly what it was but a bottle of cocktail mixer which normally costs him £3 he can't get hold of from the trade so is having to buy it off Amazon of all places for £25 per bottle and he gets through 4 bottles per day across the 4 restaurants.

 

[ajd132]

I think it looks workable and we are already doing many of the things listed for the arable and soils section.

 

[Young McDonald]

Privileged or otherwise, I think I know what I’d be doing with their stupid schemes. Nothing.

Some of us have responsibilities that preclude that privileged attitude.

seems to be the problem - farmers who have surplus land and are not "farming" (i.e. "SO RE-WILD") VS. farmers non eligable from being overworked / already are at capacity ? (i.e. "would benefit from holiday").

seems better to "performance ratio" hand pick people from one area of the country and offer them tenure as opposed to patronising one; insentivising another ?

 

[JCMaloney]

Sorry to butt in but is there an ELMS "book" as there was with previous schemes? If so is it linkable?

Just need to understand "hobby" stuff!

Thanks muchly.