Environmental schemes; Arable Vs. Livestock

[Kiwi Pete]

Sri Lanka yesterday should focus the minds of Politicians being tempted down the extremist "green" road.



edit. As I now see was mentioned by @topground above

I'm getting that that's exactly the plan for the rest of us.... maybe not as quick or catastrophic in the case of the UK, because there's so much "wealth" and "old money" to suck out before everyone is as poor as everyone else.

..but even bonny Prince Charles has spoken of reducing the world population to a billion.... what happens to the other 7b??

We can guess, now they're showing just what's possible.
Collapsing "health" systems for example, there's plenty of money to create better. However, there is more money in sickness, so that's deemed "better".

I have grown up with unsubsidised agriculture of course, it's always occurred to me as being a low-level "land grab" of sorts that you jumps the hoops and get a small reward for giving away more control of your business over time.

What's happened here bypassed that - you want to stay farming, be prepared for very tough times.. - you want out, watch your farm go into trees.
(Overseas investment in farmland is only approved if you want to convert it to forestry).

The age old "what's everyone gonna eat?" is neatly answered by the fact they're not planning on everyone being around for long, thus that's of little importance?

Not to mention the climate change cultists, the covid cultists all being righteous and helping grow the ideology of the collectivist, totalitarian state - "it's not me, it's you!"

The out, if there is one, is that of total and complete personal responsibility for not only where we are at, but also for designing a better world and systems - or else we'll be farmed for what we can earn, and culled mercilessly when we cannot.

 

[livestock 1]

I'm getting that that's exactly the plan for the rest of us.... maybe not as quick or catastrophic in the case of the UK, because there's so much "wealth" and "old money" to suck out before everyone is as poor as everyone else.

..but even bonny Prince Charles has spoken of reducing the world population to a billion.... what happens to the other 7b??

We can guess, now they're showing just what's possible.
Collapsing "health" systems for example, there's plenty of money to create better. However, there is more money in sickness, so that's deemed "better".

I have grown up with unsubsidised agriculture of course, it's always occurred to me as being a low-level "land grab" of sorts that you jumps the hoops and get a small reward for giving away more control of your business over time.

What's happened here bypassed that - you want to stay farming, be prepared for very tough times.. - you want out, watch your farm go into trees.
(Overseas investment in farmland is only approved if you want to convert it to forestry).

The age old "what's everyone gonna eat?" is neatly answered by the fact they're not planning on everyone being around for long, thus that's of little importance?

Not to mention the climate change cultists, the covid cultists all being righteous and helping grow the ideology of the collectivist, totalitarian state - "it's not me, it's you!"

The out, if there is one, is that of total and complete personal responsibility for not only where we are at, but also for designing a better world and systems - or else we'll be farmed for what we can earn, and culled mercilessly when we cannot.

There’s a lot of truths in there
The last bit you wrote there doesn’t appear to be enough reward for producing against someone else farming and not producing in the U.K. that is. I live in hope

 

[jellybean]

I find myself in agreement with much of what @Kiwi Pete says in general and would love to visit one day. His comments about complete personal responsibility are crucial. I am not very good with words but will try to say how I see things. Even as a child I would look at so called authority and think that it was all wrong, school head masters in particular closely followed by all politicians and including my parents. (although in hindsight I can see they were doing their best given their own upbringing)

I have always had the unshakeable feeling that to choose to give away your own power to somebody else was a stupid thing to do. Human nature being what it is in the vast majority of cases that power you have given away to another person, especially politicians, will be abused and you will be the loser. I have been called a rebel, and much worse, but during my life I have just tried to do what felt right to me. At 17 I left school and emigrated to Australia to get away from parents and control. At 30 after a career in dairying I started deer farming because I wanted to but also because everybody laughed and said it would never work.

I don't know what the answer to Britain's political crisis is but if we all followed Kiwi Pete's last sentence on complete personal responsibility would we actually need politicians at all? Of course we need administrators etc to help with the smooth operation of day to day running of systems. I have never voted in any election because of these feelings and have even less inclination to do so when faced with the current crop of would be candidates for the "top job"
I try to remain positive and look for signs that people are becoming more aware of what needs doing and that the old ways are rapidly falling away.

 

[BrianV]

I think it’s because arable is perceived as doing more Enviromental damage with monoculture and chemical use.

Once upon a time the political buzz word was the “polluter pays” now in farming it’s about to become “the polluter gets paid”!

 

[warksfarmer]

I also wonder to what extent scale might be a factor.
Most people seem to consider that schemes, especially SFI favours bigger farms. I would assume the average size of an arable farm would dwarf the size of the average livestock farm.

Large farms because your talking about £22/ha base payment so why would a 200ha farm even bother with the hassle and risk factor? You spend the same amount implementing the scheme or instructing an agent to fight incorrectly administered fines.

 

[ajcc]

Winter feeding is what killed the idea of css for me. No supplementary feeding and “we hate arable fodder crops being eaten in winter.”
It really is not joined up thinking other than as marginal summer grazing supplement.

 

[Vader]

A good reply to a comment I probably shouldn't have made.
A lot of stewardship options are used around here for raising birds and I don't have an opinion on it.
I said I didn't want to get into any supposed rights or wrongs, just the practical differences in arable schemes to pasture.
The point is, it is an arable option that allows/ helps a second income stream. Most arable options have positive affects for the farms future compared to livestock options generally having a negative impact.

I think this post sums the difference up well;

Get your point.
Just many small/medium farm shoots dont make an income from it.
Probaly a loss if took own time on it and wheat put out for food, etc

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I find myself in agreement with much of what @Kiwi Pete says in general and would love to visit one day. His comments about complete personal responsibility are crucial. I am not very good with words but will try to say how I see things. Even as a child I would look at so called authority and think that it was all wrong, school head masters in particular closely followed by all politicians and including my parents. (although in hindsight I can see they were doing their best given their own upbringing)

I have always had the unshakeable feeling that to choose to give away your own power to somebody else was a stupid thing to do. Human nature being what it is in the vast majority of cases that power you have given away to another person, especially politicians, will be abused and you will be the loser. I have been called a rebel, and much worse, but during my life I have just tried to do what felt right to me. At 17 I left school and emigrated to Australia to get away from parents and control. At 30 after a career in dairying I started deer farming because I wanted to but also because everybody laughed and said it would never work.

I don't know what the answer to Britain's political crisis is but if we all followed Kiwi Pete's last sentence on complete personal responsibility would we actually need politicians at all? Of course we need administrators etc to help with the smooth operation of day to day running of systems. I have never voted in any election because of these feelings and have even less inclination to do so when faced with the current crop of would be candidates for the "top job"
I try to remain positive and look for signs that people are becoming more aware of what needs doing and that the old ways are rapidly falling away.

I think that they seize every opportunity to foster this great concept that "we can't be trusted"....

..whoever the "we" is.

And that sets the scene nicely for a life of needing to be pulled into line, infers that someone or something else is partly responsible.

I know that I can be 100% responsible for a relationship or how a conversation goes, it's just what I create.

But the thing is, there is no us and them in reality it's just us.
All of us.
The sooner we get that in our heads the better we'll all be.

What I see might work is if the power structure of the world's people stops resembling a very pointy pyramid, because that very shape is constructed of various illusions.

None of us are better or worse when we really look at things properly, people with more monopoly-money are better than who?

 

[DaveGrohl]

Analysis of Proposed Fertilizer Emissions Reduction Will Devastate Canadian Farmers

CALGARY, AB: The Western Canadian Wheat Growers are shocked by the depth of the impact of the federal government’s proposed […]

WHEATGROWERS.CA

A big thank you to Jeroen van Maanen one of the Dutch farmer protest leaders for sending me a video to share and to explain to you all about what is... | By Gareth Wyn JonesFacebook

A big thank you to Jeroen van Maanen one of the Dutch farmer protest leaders for sending me a video to share and to explain to you all about what is...

www.facebook.com

That’s …… disturbing. Idiots all over the world. Look, emissions. Must. Cut. Emissions.

Never seems to enter their heads that the victims of their policies might be in other countries than the one where they’re playing God. What a time to be alive.

 

[ollie989898]

Could it be that their focus is on arable farms because historically uptake by farms majoring on livestock enterprises is very very low?

 

[farmerm]

Sunday paper was suggesting none of the front runners would be so keen on the green agenda as Boris & his boss

but will the opposition? There will be an election in the new year, next summer at the very latest. There always is an early election after a change of PM. The new leader may not like it but if the new leader wants a mandate to divert far from the election promises of 2019 and the Boris government policies are already far adrift from the manifesto.

 

[Hampton]

That’s …… disturbing. Idiots all over the world. Look, emiisions. Must. Cut. Emissions.

Never seems to enter their heads that the victims of their policies might be in other countries than the one where they’re playing God. What a time to be alive.

At least the Canadians have had the gumption to commission the report early and highlight the dangers.
No chance of the Ahdb or NFu doing that

 

[DaveGrohl]

At least the Canadians have had the gumption to commission the report early and highlight the dangers.
No chance of the Ahdb or NFu doing that

Indeed. Our representatives are so far behind the game they can’t even see the game.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

That’s …… disturbing. Idiots all over the world. Look, emissions. Must. Cut. Emissions.

Never seems to enter their heads that the victims of their policies might be in other countries than the one where they’re playing God. What a time to be alive.

Don't forget that the worst effects of climate change like flood, drought, rising sea levels are felt most keenly in the poorer countries.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

but will the opposition? There will be an election in the new year, next summer at the very latest. There always is an early election after a change of PM. The new leader may not like it but if the new leader wants a mandate to divert far from the election promises of 2019 and the Boris government policies are already far adrift from the manifesto.

They have a massive majority. I doubt they'll risk a strong and stable rerun.

 

[Hindsight]

but will the opposition? There will be an election in the new year, next summer at the very latest. There always is an early election after a change of PM. The new leader may not like it but if the new leader wants a mandate to divert far from the election promises of 2019 and the Boris government policies are already far adrift from the manifesto.

Crumbs. I doubt there will be a GE until the last possible moment - 2024. Old Starmer will keep on rabbiting about seeking a mandate but with the inflationary crisis about to hit ordinary flk this Autumn doubt any of the political parties truly want to test there chances with the electorate.

 

[Wombat]

Just look at SFI, we have lots of ridge and furrow something like 85% of our PP but now it needs to become herbal lays to get any real cash and even that is crap. Its been fine for the last how many hundred years..... now it needs to be improved

 

[DaveGrohl]

Don't forget that the worst effects of climate change like flood drought, rising sea levels are felt most keenly in the poorer countries.

That was sort of my point. Canadians will see an increase in their food costs which they’ll have to suck up, Canadian farmers will go out of business, people in poorer countries will feel all of the consequences. Their food will become ruinously/catastrophically expensive.

As you say, the flip side, doing nothing, poorer countries suffer worse climate consequences. Cutting fert use rather than the more obvious vote losers is an easy decision for Canadian politicians. It’s horrendously complicated. For poorer countries it’s starve or move? Pretty easy decision ultimately.

Canadian politicians get to feel better about themselves so there’s that.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Crumbs. I doubt there will be a GE until the last possible moment - 2024. Old Starmer will keep on rabbiting about seeking a mandate but with the inflationary crisis about to hit ordinary flk this Autumn doubt any of the political parties truly want to test there chances with the electorate.

Totally. They’ll want to keep their heads down in the honeymoon period and hope something turns up. Don’t blame them really, it’s a sh1tshow.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

That was sort of my point. Canadians will see an increase in their food costs which they’ll have to suck up, Canadian farmers will go out of business, people in poorer countries will feel all of the consequences. Their food will become ruinously/catastrophically expensive.

As you say, the flip side, doing nothing, poorer countries suffer worse climate consequences. Cutting fert use rather than the more obvious vote losers is an easy decision for Canadian politicians. It’s horrendously complicated. For poorer countries it’s starve or move? Pretty easy decision ultimately.

Canadian politicians get to feel better about themselves so there’s that.

while those actions of Holland/Canada etc cause Sri Lanka to be replicated across the developing world, but that won't matter as Trudeau will be able to preen in Davos!