Europe-can we survive on the outside

[GTB]

I don't know many young people relying on SFP, most have diversified as they can't afford to get on the ladder. I only claim on 20 acres of ground which we own, everything else is just on grazing license.

In my opinion losing SFP would help reduce stupid rents. I tried to rent 200 acres of grazing a few years back, it was flood plain so not worth a lot, but I'd have had to paid out near £20k rent in April only to claim it back in December. That's a lot to finance to get bugger all back.

Ah but if like me you had borrowed substantially to expand in order to create employment for family members the last thing you would want is a huge drop in land values. I'm afraid the ending of sfp/bsp would hit some of the more forward thinking among us hardest. Those who have been born with a silver spoon in their mouth will be ok in any case.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

The answer to the question is yes. Of course we would survive.
As a farmer I would be very worried we could be the sector of society most disadvantaged by this.
As a citizen of the UK, I'm sure the future would be better.
The best outcome would be a deconstructed, loose union of European nations with just closer union of those in the Euro with a strategy to move countries between the two.
However, the most likely outcome is a gradual disintegration of the EU or a bloody revolt further down the line. Being outside at that point will save lives.

 

[willy]

Ah but if like me you had borrowed substantially to expand in order to create employment for family members the last thing you would want is a huge drop in land values. I'm afraid the ending of sfp/bsp would hit some of the more forward thinking among us hardest. Those who have been born with a silver spoon in their mouth will be ok in any case.

This is my position aswell, heavily borrowed to buy farm. I would need to see prices improving. But it would bring my rents down on the other land, and would people be planting wheat and barley at any cost if they had no security blanket? Which would possibly result in no exportable surplus and there may be a firmed price or better contracts on offer.

I don't know what would happen, but at the moment I feel we are coasting along with no direction except for chasing the Sfp cheque.

 

[Yale]

Out of The EU.

Hold onto your hats and fly by the seat of your pants.

It could be very ugly for agriculture.

 

[roscoe erf]

This is my position aswell, heavily borrowed to buy farm. I would need to see prices improving. But it would bring my rents down on the other land, and would people be planting wheat and barley at any cost if they had no security blanket? Which would possibly result in no exportable surplus and there may be a firmed price or better contracts on offer.

I don't know what would happen, but at the moment I feel we are coasting along with no direction except for chasing the Sfp cheque.

i don't think they will be that much of an upset with prices obviously they may be a drop in handouts but that should be boosted by better prices and the government will still support us if they want food security and sustainable prices

 

[Only]

Ah but if like me you had borrowed substantially to expand in order to create employment for family members the last thing you would want is a huge drop in land values. I'm afraid the ending of sfp/bsp would hit some of the more forward thinking among us hardest. Those who have been born with a silver spoon in their mouth will be ok in any case.

I agree we have done the same as you invested to create employment for family

 

[KennyO]

i don't think they will be that much of an upset with prices obviously they may be a drop in handouts but that should be boosted by better prices and the government will still support us if they want food security and sustainable prices

Not much chance of the gov supporting us if they can get cheaper food from elsewhere.

 

[JohnGalway]

The issue with being "out" is that I somehow feel the UK gives less of a toss about far regional areas that cannot fund themselves very well (West Wales and Valleys is a good one) than Europe might. In a way in the UK we may be in such thrall to our main moneynaking machine (the city) that I sometimes feel the EU as a capacity to overreach that.

Fundamentally the EU is a slightly left of centre project with a social conscience that wanted to improve and equalise living standards throughout the EU, I know it started off as a trading partnership but its done plenty good things. Politically we in the UK see it as a bit unanswerable and cloak and dagger - its partly EU's fault and partly the Daily Mail.

I'd say you're probably correct about remote regions. We sent a delegation of hill farmers to Brussels on Wednesday to discuss certain issues the Govt at home only paid lip service to. It's all still ongoing, but I for one am damn glad there was a place to send our representatives to because our own don't give a toss.

 

[roscoe erf]

Not much chance of the gov supporting us if they can get cheaper food from elsewhere.

if we leave Europe will they

 

[will l]

Sooner we are out the better.

Why were you campaigning for an independent scotland which was wanting the euro and europe and now youve done a complete Uturn and us continentals can all go and do one!

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Before deciding about in or out, I would like to be able to compare the effect that the EU has on Farmers who operate in countries outside the EU but who rely on the EU for most of their business. I suspect that they are subject to EU controls and red tape without the benefit of SFP.
In some respects I think we are missing the point here, our own civil service is responsible for interpreting EU directives in a way which makes life more difficult for us. If EU Directives were interpreted and enforced in a business friendly way by the Civil Service we would have lees to complain about. The problem is that the Civil Service have no idea or experience in what running a business is all about.
My preference would be to sort out the Penpushers and have another look!

Good luck with that, sorting out the penpushers is a bridge too far I think. The civil service is now so big and full of little hitlers who only want to create work to keep themselves in work. They will do anything to make life more complicated so they are indispensable.

 

[7610 super q]

Don't get a SFP to speak of, so don't give a monkeys.But to quote Harry Enfield "It's better to be on the train pishing out the window,than running along the platform trying to pish into a moving train"

 

[rob1]

Think you could be on the money there.
2 things have fueled the land price rise,, low interest and SFP.
Put interest back up to 10% and cut the sfp even more we will see a big correction in prices.
The big elephant in the room is just what is the state of UK plc finances

Its IHT rules and roll over relief that is driving land prices cut them or make it harder to qualify and they might drop

 

[joe soapy]

Its IHT rules and roll over relief that is driving land prices cut them or make it harder to qualify and they might drop

Just off the top of me head i cant think of any land sold locally recently that involved roll over, although big city payout has figured

 

[glasshouse]

Why were you campaigning for an independent scotland which was wanting the euro and europe and now youve done a complete Uturn and us continentals can all go and do one!

You are correct, but now that we have lost the referendum, it is a different game. If it had been yes, we could have negotiated a better CAP for scotland with the £200m that defra nicked from us.etcetc.
But since we lost, we are stuck with a f*cked CAP, and landlords running off with all the cash and evicting all and sundry.
Better out.

 

[rob1]

Just off the top of me head i cant think of any land sold locally recently that involved roll over, although big city payout has figured

Round me lots are using roll over and it has a knock on effect over the whole country as people get pushed from their base area to slightly cheaper areas, when you have the likes of Dyson buying several thousand acres for silly money it makes every seller think their bit o dirt is worth the same, one thing I think most would agree on is that land is way over valued and very few can make it pay, although many use the strange argument that they can spread the cost over already paid for land

 

[grumpy]

farm gate prices are dependent on the strength of the pound v the dollar and the crop yields across the world,coming out of the eu wouldnt help uk agriculture one bit

 

[caveman]

I cant believe that some have borrowed so heavily on the expectation of the continuation of an xmas box for the next x number of years.
Even more incredulous to believe that money lenders have gone along with that model!

 

[Ashtree]

I like the NVZ relaxation. It is way over the top for all except the most intensive livestock enterprises, and even there it could be simplified. At least UKIP appear to listen, whereas seem to be guided by academics.

My dear man, all opposition politicians of all parties and none, in all countries and continents, have one thing in common. They nod wisely in agreement with you, they say and promise what you want to hear. Then when they get their filthy arses in government, they f**k you equally as hard as the guys they just replaced.
UKIP ..... no different

 

[grumpy]

My dear man, all opposition politicians of all parties and none, in all countries and continents, have one thing in common. They nod wisely in agreement with you, they say and promise what you want to hear. Then when they get their filthy arses in government, they fudge you equally as hard as the guys they just replaced.
UKIP ..... no different