Farm fertilizer

[Alan young]

Hi just been pricing fert after a wet miserable lambing ... normally buy 25.5.5.... 20.8.11 was mentioned in conversation, never used it and it'd obviosly higher in p an k ....on a mixed livestock farm that makes round baled hay and silage and puts muck on thru winter would a 20,8,11 be a good call just curios if anybody else been there and done that as they say?? Cheers

 

[DaveGrohl]

Hi just been pricing fert after a wet miserable lambing ... normally buy 25.5.5.... 20.8.11 was mentioned in conversation, never used it and it'd obviosly higher in p an k ....on a mixed livestock farm that makes round baled hay and silage and puts muck on thru winter would a 20,8,11 be a good call just curios if anybody else been there and done that as they say?? Cheers

You may well already be putting too much P on. 24-4-12 +S would be better but still, what’s your P indices like?

 

[Spencer]

You’ll never notice any difference

 

[snipe]

You’ll never notice any difference

You will with you bank balance. No point paying for more p and k if not needed. Could just buy single top, N and sulphur.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Hi just been pricing fert after a wet miserable lambing ... normally buy 25.5.5.... 20.8.11 was mentioned in conversation, never used it and it'd obviosly higher in p an k ....on a mixed livestock farm that makes round baled hay and silage and puts muck on thru winter would a 20,8,11 be a good call just curios if anybody else been there and done that as they say?? Cheers

Depends how much muck and how good it is but silage and hay will drain the k out of your soil if the mucks poor quality

 

[Limcrazy]

Soil analysis would be good starting point to see what's needed. My farm always needs a lot of potash for cutting

 

[DrDunc]

Analyse the soil

Analyse the forage

Analyse the dung

Weigh how much dung you're applying

Weigh how much forage you're removing

Only then can you actually know what fertiliser, and how much need be applied



Or just keep guessing

Bit like guessing when the bank will call in the overdraft

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Analyse the soil

Analyse the forage

Analyse the dung

Weigh how much dung you're applying

Weigh how much forage you're removing

Only then can you actually know what fertiliser, and how much need be applied



Or just keep guessing

Bit like guessing when the bank will call in the overdraft

Of course you are right.

But I do wonder whether after spending the time and money on all that testing, you can really get things that much better without using several different grades of fertiliser and then having it all messed up by inclement weather anyway.
I prefer to keep things pretty simple.
Keep PH in the zone and put on what you hope to take off.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

Every farm is different, but when I run the gross margin for a beef enterprise I can’t profitably apply any fertilizer

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Every farm is different, but when I run the gross margin for a beef enterprise I can’t profitably apply any fertilizer

I fear sucklers don't justify any expenses but the first cwt or so of fertiliser has got to be the cheapest source of forage if you don't have sufficient organic manures.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Every farm is different, but when I run the gross margin for a beef enterprise I can’t profitably apply any fertilizer

That doesn't stop most people !

Incredible how much excess P + K gets chucked about for a negative return, when you put all the extra animal health costs into the equation.

We don't know what we don't know, for that we have experts who also don't

 

[Dead Rabbits]

I fear sucklers don't justify any expenses but the first cwt or so of fertiliser has got to be the cheapest source of forage if you don't have sufficient organic manures.

It could be, that’s for everyone to decide for themselves. I have two simple things that I’m implementing this year on the beef cattle enterprise.

1: Doing nothing for nothing is preferable to doing something for nothing

2: If I spend $1 in inputs I want it to return atleast $1.5 within 12 months. I could be aiming a bit low with this one.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

That doesn't stop most people !

Incredible how much excess P + K gets chucked about for a negative return, when you put all the extra animal health costs into the equation.

We don't know what we don't know, for that we have experts who also don't

I’m actually causing a bit of trouble with this one. My uncle was previously applying some sort of NPK+herbicide mix annually. It was actually costing more to do this than the enterprise was grossing, just one input.

I have chosen not to apply anything and my uncle is upset with me, saying that I will not grow enough grass and I will have weeds take over. I’ll just have fewer cattle then, but a positive margin, and any weeds are a direct result of management, or lack there of.

 

[DrDunc]

Of course you are right.

But I do wonder whether after spending the time and money on all that testing, you can really get things that much better without using several different grades of fertiliser and then having it all messed up by inclement weather anyway.
I prefer to keep things pretty simple.
Keep PH in the zone and put on what you hope to take off.

Perhaps buying your own soil sampling corer funnel might seem excessive to many, never mind fitting an board weighing system to the loader tractor?

Did both here, and the initial outlay has paid for itself many times over. BIG savings can be made when a few bags of TSP and MOP are all that's needed to cut out the expensive compound fertiliser, especially when as a consequence the grass and crop yields improve greatly

You don't go buying a new machine without knowing how much is in your bank account, so why try growing a crop without knowing how much wealth is in your soil?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

You will soon see if your soil is low in potash without testing

 

[BRB John]

It could be, that’s for everyone to decide for themselves. I have two simple things that I’m implementing this year on the beef cattle enterprise.

1: Doing nothing for nothing is preferable to doing something for nothing

2: If I spend $1 in inputs I want it to return atleast $1.5 within 12 months. I could be aiming a bit low with this one.

.... You want a 50% return on your investments in one year?
Good luck

 

[DrDunc]

You will soon see if your soil is low in potash without testing

By the time potash deficiency has revealed itself with pale coloured plants and bugger all clover, you've lost money

So why not spend £15 on a soil sample BEFORE you've lost money on a failing crop?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Maybe ,but would cost a lot to test the whole farm ,
You can be aware of what a crop is removing
A sheep farmer , very little
Someone taking 3 cuts of silage a very lot
Someone taking 2 cuts of Horse Haylage and and no animals on the farm is basically selling his soil

 

[GmB]

Perhaps buying your own soil sampling corer funnel might seem excessive to many, never mind fitting an board weighing system to the loader tractor?

Did both here, and the initial outlay has paid for itself many times over. BIG savings can be made when a few bags of TSP and MOP are all that's needed to cut out the expensive compound fertiliser, especially when as a consequence the grass and crop yields improve greatly

You don't go buying a new machine without knowing how much is in your bank account, so why try growing a crop without knowing how much wealth is in your soil?

@DrDunc, any chance of posting the loader weighing system you have please?
Had a phone call last week from a lorry driver who was collecting round bale silage and he asked what weight the bales were so he wouldn’t go over weight, I could only guess……

 

[PSQ]

You will soon see if your soil is low in potash without testing

Derrick, you wouldn't suggest this as a strategy to follow though.
This should be avoided at all costs.

By the time potash deficiency has revealed itself with pale coloured plants and bugger all clover, you've lost money

So why not spend £15 on a soil sample BEFORE you've lost money on a failing crop?

This.
Farming without soil sampling (or a fertiliser strategy) is like playing darts with a blindfold.
In the grand scheme of things sampling costs buttons, especially compared to our biggest cost: fertiliser.
Cheaper samplers are available (even a garden trowel), but these will last a lot longer than a few cwt of wasted fert, then just "walk the big W":

Soil Samplers

Soil samplers are a handy management tool to have when checking profiles and field variability of macro and micro nutrients in the soil.

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