Farmer Roy's Random Thoughts - I never said it was easy.

Just to stir the pot a wee bit:
9AUh6ggNAcp5z8zW1sVEkzKu1GJB4ZG0EpI8GCHlZYT2g51IdhEZwdxlqI6RZ7Sz2mwvWsDMJusO0zNzwDJ1JDMpY2uCI3_0vk2Jo7id8TcwpyX8T7g-SpZH_7KdUOTfrT2HGKIOZjbcHOlSum6YTdXXmIqob7-MsIw=s0-d-e1-ft
April 2, 2019
By George Friedman
Brexit and Charles de Gaulle’s Last Laugh
In many ways, de Gaulle foresaw the crisis Britain is now struggling to pull itself out of.
As we watch the British government tear itself apart over its relationship to Europe, it is useful to stop and consider the deeper origins of the crisis. They go back decades, to the long-standing tension between Britain and Europe, and in particular between Britain and France. Britain was not a signatory of the 1957 Treaty of Rome or any of the prior agreements that led to European economic integration. But in the 1960s, it applied to join the European Economic Community. At the time, Britain was economically weak, having never fully recovered after World War II, and saw the EEC as a free trade zone with relatively few complexities. The country had stayed clear of excessive entanglement with continental Europe but felt that having less limited access to Continental markets would help in its recovery.

But the British application to join the EEC was blocked by France in 1963 and 1967. French President Charles de Gaulle argued that the British economy was in many ways incompatible with the rest of Europe’s. He also argued that Britain had a deep-seated animosity toward any pan-European undertaking and would perceive a united Europe as a threat to its independence. De Gaulle didn’t view Britain as a fully European country, since its history ran counter to Europe’s history. Since the Norman conquests, Britain had been fencing with Continental powers, playing one off against the other to prevent any one power from becoming strong enough to storm the English Channel and conquer it. Whereas the other European powers were primarily land powers, forced by geography to focus on the threats posed by their neighbors, Britain was a naval power, whose primary response to Napoleon, for example, was to protect itself through a blockade that weakened France. From de Gaulle’s point of view, Britain fought World War II the same way – by shielding itself and abandoning France.

The British understanding of economic life, according to de Gaulle, was also incompatible with Europe’s. The British economy was driven by private investment, innovation and risk-taking. Continental economies had a much more intimate relationship with the state, which helped shape the direction of the economy and cushioned the impact of capitalism on workers. The state’s relationship to the market, therefore, was also very different. De Gaulle did not see the state as intruding on the nation but as the embodiment of the nation.

The European Union derives from the same tradition de Gaulle did. Neither objected to private property, but they believed in the need for state intervention in all aspects of life. The EU has a regulatory bent that is far more intense than the British, and sees its bureaucracy as having authority far greater than Britain’s.

De Gaulle had other bones to pick with the British. Britain’s relationship with the United States troubled him deeply. De Gaulle saw the U.S. as the logical and extreme expression of British ideology and strategy. The U.S. marginalized the state and, like Britain, was prepared to fight to the last European to block the Soviets. De Gaulle recalled the U.S.-British alliance in World War II, and the degree to which he had to resist having France reduced to a dominion of the United States and Britain during and after the war. The tension between Britain and the Continent didn’t end with World War II, and Britain’s relationship to the United States compounded it.

De Gaulle saw the alliance between the Anglo-Saxons as representing a multi-faceted threat to the Continent. In particular, he did not want Europe in a fixed alliance that committed the Continent to military action under certain circumstances. He didn’t want another war in Europe and was not prepared to take the same risks the U.S. was claiming it was prepared to take. He saw NATO as a threat to the EEC in many ways. He also saw the Soviets as a manageable threat, and the Americans as reckless. From de Gaulle’s perspective, then, if Britain were to join the EEC, it would act as a tool of the United States, and he was not willing to let that happen.

For de Gaulle, the cultural gap between Britain and a united Europe couldn’t be bridged. They were just too economically incompatible and their strategic interests too different.

De Gaulle’s goal in all of this, however, was not simply to build a European community. He wanted to build a European community that France could dominate, something that was still conceivable in the 1960s, while Britain remained outside the bloc. And in trying to achieve his goal, he actually anticipated the problem that would arise with the Maastricht Treaty, which established the European Union.

Britain has a very different economic and political culture than the Continent. It has a different history that gives it a different view of the Continent. Leaving other matters aside, it does not fit into Europe, and the attempt at bridging this gap has led to the worst political crisis in Britain since the fall of France.
As much as I disagree with the British, I disagree with De Gaulle even more, you can stick bureaucracies and government intervention where the sun don't shine!!!:rolleyes::LOL::D
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Just to stir the pot a wee bit:
9AUh6ggNAcp5z8zW1sVEkzKu1GJB4ZG0EpI8GCHlZYT2g51IdhEZwdxlqI6RZ7Sz2mwvWsDMJusO0zNzwDJ1JDMpY2uCI3_0vk2Jo7id8TcwpyX8T7g-SpZH_7KdUOTfrT2HGKIOZjbcHOlSum6YTdXXmIqob7-MsIw=s0-d-e1-ft
April 2, 2019
By George Friedman
Brexit and Charles de Gaulle’s Last Laugh
In many ways, de Gaulle foresaw the crisis Britain is now struggling to pull itself out of.
As we watch the British government tear itself apart over its relationship to Europe, it is useful to stop and consider the deeper origins of the crisis. They go back decades, to the long-standing tension between Britain and Europe, and in particular between Britain and France. Britain was not a signatory of the 1957 Treaty of Rome or any of the prior agreements that led to European economic integration. But in the 1960s, it applied to join the European Economic Community. At the time, Britain was economically weak, having never fully recovered after World War II, and saw the EEC as a free trade zone with relatively few complexities. The country had stayed clear of excessive entanglement with continental Europe but felt that having less limited access to Continental markets would help in its recovery.

But the British application to join the EEC was blocked by France in 1963 and 1967. French President Charles de Gaulle argued that the British economy was in many ways incompatible with the rest of Europe’s. He also argued that Britain had a deep-seated animosity toward any pan-European undertaking and would perceive a united Europe as a threat to its independence. De Gaulle didn’t view Britain as a fully European country, since its history ran counter to Europe’s history. Since the Norman conquests, Britain had been fencing with Continental powers, playing one off against the other to prevent any one power from becoming strong enough to storm the English Channel and conquer it. Whereas the other European powers were primarily land powers, forced by geography to focus on the threats posed by their neighbors, Britain was a naval power, whose primary response to Napoleon, for example, was to protect itself through a blockade that weakened France. From de Gaulle’s point of view, Britain fought World War II the same way – by shielding itself and abandoning France.

The British understanding of economic life, according to de Gaulle, was also incompatible with Europe’s. The British economy was driven by private investment, innovation and risk-taking. Continental economies had a much more intimate relationship with the state, which helped shape the direction of the economy and cushioned the impact of capitalism on workers. The state’s relationship to the market, therefore, was also very different. De Gaulle did not see the state as intruding on the nation but as the embodiment of the nation.

The European Union derives from the same tradition de Gaulle did. Neither objected to private property, but they believed in the need for state intervention in all aspects of life. The EU has a regulatory bent that is far more intense than the British, and sees its bureaucracy as having authority far greater than Britain’s.

De Gaulle had other bones to pick with the British. Britain’s relationship with the United States troubled him deeply. De Gaulle saw the U.S. as the logical and extreme expression of British ideology and strategy. The U.S. marginalized the state and, like Britain, was prepared to fight to the last European to block the Soviets. De Gaulle recalled the U.S.-British alliance in World War II, and the degree to which he had to resist having France reduced to a dominion of the United States and Britain during and after the war. The tension between Britain and the Continent didn’t end with World War II, and Britain’s relationship to the United States compounded it.

De Gaulle saw the alliance between the Anglo-Saxons as representing a multi-faceted threat to the Continent. In particular, he did not want Europe in a fixed alliance that committed the Continent to military action under certain circumstances. He didn’t want another war in Europe and was not prepared to take the same risks the U.S. was claiming it was prepared to take. He saw NATO as a threat to the EEC in many ways. He also saw the Soviets as a manageable threat, and the Americans as reckless. From de Gaulle’s perspective, then, if Britain were to join the EEC, it would act as a tool of the United States, and he was not willing to let that happen.

For de Gaulle, the cultural gap between Britain and a united Europe couldn’t be bridged. They were just too economically incompatible and their strategic interests too different.

De Gaulle’s goal in all of this, however, was not simply to build a European community. He wanted to build a European community that France could dominate, something that was still conceivable in the 1960s, while Britain remained outside the bloc. And in trying to achieve his goal, he actually anticipated the problem that would arise with the Maastricht Treaty, which established the European Union.

Britain has a very different economic and political culture than the Continent. It has a different history that gives it a different view of the Continent. Leaving other matters aside, it does not fit into Europe, and the attempt at bridging this gap has led to the worst political crisis in Britain since the fall of France.
Most of that's about right. However, the assertion that the UK economy is incompatible with the rest of Europe may have been true in the 1960's but so is the German economy now hence the huge tensions built up within the euro.

Also, the EU is characterised by passing huge numbers of laws and directives controlling how we live and work (many of which are actually due a good idea but should just be part of good management without needing legislation) but it's the UK that had "gold plated" them all in the interpretation and made our lives so difficult.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Most of that's about right. However, the assertion that the UK economy is incompatible with the rest of Europe may have been true in the 1960's but so is the German economy now hence the huge tensions built up within the euro.

Also, the EU is characterised by passing huge numbers of laws and directives controlling how we live and work (many of which are actually due a good idea but should just be part of good management without needing legislation) but it's the UK that had "gold plated" them all in the interpretation and made our lives so difficult.
Is this "gold plating" purely to create jobs, in your opinion?

I've always assumed that to be the case, 30 million or more people need paid employment, so something needs to be done...??
I've always seen your meat grading system in a similar fashion, to split up the beef and sheep job a little more.. so a beef will provide more jobs and work than it otherwise could/should/would
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Is this "gold plating" purely to create jobs, in your opinion?

I've always assumed that to be the case, 30 million or more people need paid employment, so something needs to be done...??
I've always seen your meat grading system in a similar fashion, to split up the beef and sheep job a little more.. so a beef will provide more jobs and work than it otherwise could/should/would
I'm not sure really Pete. There is a basic cultural difference between the UK and French/Spanish/Greek approach to laws: in the UK you generally expect to abide by them, they generally expect to ignore or work round them. The French in particular seem happy to vote for EU laws that they have no intention of following :rolleyes:

In my EA days we were absolutely tying ourselves in bureaucratic knots trying to rigidly apply the EU "Water Framework Directive". The Dutch didn't seem to have any problem with it. Who had the right approach? :rolleyes:

These days 99% of folk regulating people in the UK have no experience of actually doing the job they regulate so apply rules rigidly and impractically. I watched a 360 excavator driver with 40 years safe expertise get angry when criticised by a skills test examiner who'd never actually driven one himself.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I'm not sure really Pete. There is a basic cultural difference between the UK and French/Spanish/Greek approach to laws: in the UK you generally expect to abide by them, they generally expect to ignore or work round them. The French in particular seem happy to vote for EU laws that they have no intention of following :rolleyes:

In my EA days we were absolutely tying ourselves in bureaucratic knots trying to rigidly apply the EU "Water Framework Directive". The Dutch didn't seem to have any problem with it. Who had the right approach? :rolleyes:

These days 99% of folk regulating people in the UK have no experience of actually doing the job they regulate so apply rules rigidly and impractically. I watched a 360 excavator driver with 40 years safe expertise get angry when criticised by a skills test examiner who'd never actually driven one himself.
It does seem very much a part of the culture that "someone will tell me to" but it seems unique to you lucky people.
And, queuing - even the word "queue" seems to be as difficult as possible (too much eu euing) - I've always wondered just how and why it is what it is, so I asked!
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Half way through lambing now and having the traditional spell of cold weather,snow on the tops,was a covering right down yesterday. (n)

Remaining twins kicked out from the shed for a few hours to stretch their legs and get fed.

View attachment 784328
Still snow on the hills here too. Sleeting again now :( ewes been in overnight but will be going out again in a bit. Hopefully won't be coming in again. Meant to get better after tomorrow (y)
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Still snow on the hills here too. Sleeting again now :( ewes been in overnight but will be going out again in a bit. Hopefully won't be coming in again. Meant to get better after tomorrow (y)
Well the weather is much worse than forecast so twins won't be going out today :(
Just come back from seeing the singles outside and 2 were fresh on their feet suckling in the whiteout. Had some troubles with big lambs yesterday but I think they will have to take their chances till tomorrow now unless it stops snowing :coldfeet:
Had a lamb born dead in the shed too just to remind me that lambing inside isn't a foolproof way to not lose lambs. If that had happened outside today I'd have blamed the weather but it was just stillborn still attached to it's placenta with no obvious sign why (n)
Still 12 sets of twins and a triplet all alive trouble free since last night so it's been worth bringing them in.
 

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Well the weather is much worse than forecast so twins won't be going out today :(
Just come back from seeing the singles outside and 2 were fresh on their feet suckling in the whiteout. Had some troubles with big lambs yesterday but I think they will have to take their chances till tomorrow now unless it stops snowing :coldfeet:
Had a lamb born dead in the shed too just to remind me that lambing inside isn't a foolproof way to not lose lambs. If that had happened outside today I'd have blamed the weather but it was just stillborn still attached to it's placenta with no obvious sign why (n)
Still 12 sets of twins and a triplet all alive trouble free since last night so it's been worth bringing them in.

Currently just about the worst weather for outdoor lambing.

Driving sleet.

Currently around 100 ft below the snow line in the yard.

Only way it could be worse would be a stronger wind.
 

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Currently just about the worst weather for outdoor lambing.

Driving sleet.

Currently around 100 ft below the snow line in the yard.

Only way it could be worse would be a stronger wind.
It's awful isn't it. It's white in the yard here I've had to close the doors to stop snow blowing in. Just come in to dry off s bit before sorting some feed for the ewes inside seeing as they won't be going out.
1554378180721-586096585.jpg
Quick picture from the front door step. Were about 600ft here but quite exposed. It was much worse higher up than here though. At least it's stopped coming down for now.
 
Well the weather is much worse than forecast so twins won't be going out today :(
Just come back from seeing the singles outside and 2 were fresh on their feet suckling in the whiteout. Had some troubles with big lambs yesterday but I think they will have to take their chances till tomorrow now unless it stops snowing :coldfeet:
Had a lamb born dead in the shed too just to remind me that lambing inside isn't a foolproof way to not lose lambs. If that had happened outside today I'd have blamed the weather but it was just stillborn still attached to it's placenta with no obvious sign why (n)
Still 12 sets of twins and a triplet all alive trouble free since last night so it's been worth bringing them in.
My problems come in batches. This morning I had three live lambs one dead lamb one cast ewe with a badly stuck lamb and another ewe running about with a swollen lambs head hanging out. Did the cast ewe first. Pushed the dead lamb back and got his legs out and pulled him, then put the ewe with her live lamb. Then caught the other ewe. Had to push the head back to get the legs up. Then the head did not want to come out. Lots of pushing and pulling and got it out alive. Put that ewe with her 2 lambs then separated the other ewe with her good lamb. I fostered another lamb onto her later. Not sure if it's going to work.
 

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