Farmers giving up due to Brexit?

[JP1]

**** Excellent post******

Ive been saying for a while now UK farming will become industrialised if subs are removed completely I even started a thread about it but some lad with a few chickens kept insisting there was no need for subs as HE could currently get by without, he failed to realise the niche sectors such as his would soon be over produced too as tens/hundreds of thousands of beef/sheep/dairy/arable farmers desperately try to diversify into anything they think can make money!

It was an excellent post. You could have made your's without resorting to being personal.

There is plenty of space for free thinkers. Have you ever heard of Joel Salatin, for example?

 

[Henarar]

Have you ever heard of Joel Salatin,

Russian Bloke ?

 

[texel-tom]

The price of grain paid to farmers is lower now than 30 yrs ago . , inputs 30 yards ago were only 30% of what they are now . Explain how it can be done .

The fact that people keep going would suggest that it is, or at the very least subsides have allowed them to continue. And as unpalatable as it is if It can't be done, prehaps it shouldn't?

 

[texel-tom]

It was an excellent post. You could have made your's without resorting to being personal.

There is plenty of space for free thinkers. Have you ever heard of Joel Salatin, for example?

He is clearly a very charismatic and interesting chap - but are his methods really applicable on a truly large scale commercial basis. Is he not quite reliant on unpaid labour for his system to work?

 

[JP1]

He is clearly a very charismatic and interesting chap - but are his methods really applicable on a truly large scale commercial basis. Is he not quite reliant on unpaid labour for his system to work?

Yes and no. He advocates systems that utilise labour over capital and he has a series of share type arrangements. He's a smart cookie and holds consumers close so he can pick their pockets (e.g. his Grand Daughter selling POL fancy pullets for $18 to lifestylers in the Greater NY area). It was this bit that made me think of @Pasty when the Boss said what he did

 

[Old McDonald]

@texel-tom, You are correct about the free labour. Additionally, he, his son and daughter in law make a great deal of money from giving talks around the country, and sometimes further afield including the UK. It is a four figure sum plus all expenses for a half hour talk. Salatin spends most of his time doing this.

There is nothing new in what he does and the systems are not suitable on a bigger scale for anyone who cannot get the free labour. Individuals or families can do it of course, and I am sure Patsy is making a success of using some of Salatin's ideas, so it can be done by some.

 

[digger64]

Really? So if you cut your cost of production you would voluntary offer up your stock at a lower price in order to reflect that?

I suppose farmers are price takers by and large, so in fact don't get much choice in the matter. I concede i may well be wrong.

But they do tend to raise their input costs like rent or what they give for store stock etc

 

[Pasty]

Yes and no. He advocates systems that utilise labour over capital and he has a series of share type arrangements. He's a smart cookie and holds consumers close so he can pick their pockets (e.g. his Grand Daughter selling POL fancy pullets for $18 to lifestylers in the Greater NY area. It was this bit that made me think of @Pasty when the Boss said what he did

It's OK, at least he referred to me as a 'lad'. Most people say 'old git'. So I'll take it as a compliment. To be honest I have started avoiding any thread with the boss in now as he seems to have it in for me.

Salatin is certainly an interesting case and a lot can be taken from it. No harm in discussing the method applications in a nice way. A lot of it is using old techniques but in a maybe more 'big picture' way with all the latest equipment and tech. For instance, people have been using chicken 'tractors' for at least 100 years, probably more but those people certain didn't have internet aggregation schemes to organise sales and delivery of the end product. Plus, why shouldn't they make money on the side talking about what they do. In most industries, this would be applauded.

Maybe some of our posters on here should consider hiring themselves out as after dinner speakers telling Scottish hill farmers how they are all DOOOOOOOOOOOMED. It might catch on, you never know.

 

[Pasty]

@texel-tom, You are correct about the free labour. Additionally, he, his son and daughter in law make a great deal of money from giving talks around the country, and sometimes further afield including the UK. It is a four figure sum plus all expenses for a half hour talk. Salatin spends most of his time doing this.

There is nothing new in what he does and the systems are not suitable on a bigger scale for anyone who cannot get the free labour. Individuals or families can do it of course, and I am sure Patsy is making a success of using some of Salatin's ideas, so it can be done by some.

Joel has some interesting comments on the 'free labour' point. He points out that it can be a double edge sword when they knock the shed down with a trailer and rip the hitch off, again. Plus, as JP1 points out, a lot of things that happen on the farm are share agreements where the operators are running their own businesses. For instance, I believe the family rent a few farms in the area and while they run the beef operation, they will find someone who wants to run poultry on it for all the obvious benefits that brings and they will mentor that person and perhaps include their product in Polyface sales but at the end of the day, it's that person's business. I think that is quite an interesting business model and one I am considering with Veg on our little plot. I have neither the time nor the inclination to grow acres of veg but maybe someone could make a go of it, supply us for free with all we need in exchange for the land and make some good money themselves?

 

[Coximus]

I think that a huge number of the "old boy" and small family outfits will disappear, especially in livestock areas - continuing the same way as the past 100 years without subsidy will not work, The sheep industry will survive by becoming a lean and extensive system utilising land noone else can, Better grassland will be hoovered up by larger co-ops and commercial farms. Much the same as arable would have to be to spread machinery and capitol costs over a larger revenue base..........
The only old rule to hold true I think will be "PK in the soil is better than money in the bank, look after the land".
Well managed land will be the key to survival more than ever, alot of people will have to adjust to keeping machines in sheds, planing their operation 2-3 years in advance, and not just throwing some N down because grass growth isnt as expected.

 

[Osca]

I think that a huge number of the "old boy" and small family outfits will disappear, especially in livestock areas - continuing the same way as the past 100 years without subsidy will not work, The sheep industry will survive by becoming a lean and extensive system utilising land noone else can, Better grassland will be hoovered up by larger co-ops and commercial farms. Much the same as arable would have to be to spread machinery and capitol costs over a larger revenue base..........
The only old rule to hold true I think will be "PK in the soil is better than money in the bank, look after the land".
Well managed land will be the key to survival more than ever, alot of people will have to adjust to keeping machines in sheds, planing their operation 2-3 years in advance, and not just throwing some N down because grass growth isnt as expected.

...so, basically, the key to survival is farming in the same way as they did 100 years ago, when they didn't have subsidy, then...

 

[wasted years]

Good guitar player old Salatin as well, though I thought it was Joe not Joel.

 

[Hilly]

Some investment going on at the moment, no one seems worried at all about brexit, im been cautious at the moment but everyone else seems to be going bonkers investing.

 

[Henarar]

...so, basically, the key to survival is farming in the same way as they did 100 years ago, when they didn't have subsidy, then...

what walk away from the land and let it grow over, there is some fields not much more than a stones throw away from here that were never cleared again

 

[RobFZS]

Some investment going on at the moment, no one seems worried at all about brexit, im been cautious at the moment but everyone else seems to be going bonkers investing.

Tractor dealer we had here the other day said he's only shifting new stuff at the moment and alot of it

 

[neilo]

There is nothing new in what he does and the systems are not suitable on a bigger scale for anyone who cannot get the free labour. Individuals or families can do it of course, and I am sure Patsy is making a success of using some of Salatin's ideas, so it can be done by some.

I'm not sure how you deduce that @Pasty is a patsy...

 

[D14]

Some investment going on at the moment, no one seems worried at all about brexit, im been cautious at the moment but everyone else seems to be going bonkers investing.

Maybe some people are investing now knowing they will get 2 -3 years of BPS thinking the kit will then last them a longtime after that. Once BPS is gone then I think a number of machinery dealers will follow as well as small input suppliers and small grain merchants.

 

[GTB]

Some investment going on at the moment, no one seems worried at all about brexit, im been cautious at the moment but everyone else seems to be going bonkers investing.

Farmers? Everyone seems to be battening down the hatches around here.
I was in Dublin recently and they're investing billions in new offices etc down in what would have been the old docks area. They think they're going to benefit hugely from Brexit as a lot of big companies want to move their HQ's out of the U.K.

 

[turbo]

Farmers? Everyone seems to be battening down the hatches around here.
I was in Dublin recently and they're investing billions in new offices etc down in what would have been the old docks area. They think they're going to benefit hugely from Brexit as a lot of big companies want to move their HQ's out of the U.K.

I Wouldn't read too much into that,country's of the eu have always spent a lot of other people money on silly projects

 

[GTB]

I Wouldn't read too much into that,country's of the eu have always spent a lot of other people money on silly projects

You may be right but it looked pretty lucrative to me. Huge investment already made and many big companies already on site with others on the way. A bit like Cardiff Bay but on a far far bigger scale.