farmfreund cattle immobiliser

[multi power]

Different topic entirely, but today I was asked if I would kindly donate 10 pounds to raise money to put a stent in a cats liver and to do something to it's intestine, the operation was costing £500. I didn't, because in my mind, the cat doesn't really know what is wrong with it, would it appreciate all the suffering? Or has it a right to the operation and a better quality of life?

Be better perhaps if they just got a new cat

 

[Sebastian]

I've seen videos of a Tazer being tested on volunteer police officers.
You could have vets and farmers lining up for the cattle device.
It's the public outcry really though. Once they find out you're pushing electrified probes up cows bums they won't read any further specially if the word restrain appears early on.
It's too sensitive a subject, leaving the question of wether it's animal cruelty or not aside it will bring back events from history that people unquestionably know should never take place.
If farmers and vets feel strongly about this they should have the balls to pioneer testing and prove the matter one way or the other.
A bit like early doctors did for human medicine.

Are you suggesting that farmers should volunteer to have the device tested on them first?

 

[milkloss]

Are you suggesting that farmers should volunteer to have the device tested on them first?

Sounds like some might get them for recreational purposes!

 

[Sebastian]

Sounds like some might get them for recreational purposes!

Well, I am not one to judge.

 

[haulmblower]

Well I didn't put it too well in my first post.
But yes!
What I was trying to say was techniques move on, I'll be honest I haven't read bovine's research so someone may have already done it. If the evidence categorically proves it's harmful I'll shut up.
If they have only said no because they think it could hurt, then someone definitely needs to try it.
What if it is actually better for the animal?
If you use the phrase 'enables treatment' rather than the word restraint the public would be more on your side.
I'm going to read the evidence now in case I'm making a tit of myself.

 

[haulmblower]

I've read it
And I still think my idea is worth a try.

 

[David.]

The same supermarkets and public who will stock and eat beef that had its throat cut, without the poor bloody animal being stunned first?
Nobody wants to talk about that, and far less do anything about it, but try and discuss a stress reducing treatment enabling device, that might just save somebody from injury and everyone wants an opinion on how it "might" be cruel.

 

[bovine]

The same supermarkets and public who will stock and eat beef that had its throat cut, without the poor bloody animal being stunned first?
Nobody wants to talk about that, and far less do anything about it, but try and discuss a stress reducing treatment enabling device, that might just save somebody from injury and everyone wants an opinion on how it "might" be cruel.

You started well, I can't agree with non stun slaughter. The electrical device remains cruel......

 

[Dry Rot]

You started well, I can't agree with non stun slaughter. The electrical device remains cruel......

Cruel = causing unnecessary suffering. It seems to me to be perfectly reasonable to want proof. Maybe the cow is immobile in ecstacy? Apparently it works for humans!

Do they still teach casting methods for horses and cattle using ropes in vet colleges? I used to see a different technique demonstrated every week on the same poor aged animals and they were cast onto a bare concrete floor. Are those techniques still legal and still in use? That was one of the things that helped me decide that I didn't want to be a vet.

 

[Davy_g]

I suppose the crux of it is they are illegal to use on cattle in the UK.
If you chose to use one and believe you can justify it, then make sure you can as worst case it could end up in court.

I don't own one and can't see why I need one. I have heard of dairy heifers about to be culled as they couldn't be milked. Farmer tried the device and got them milking, how true that is I don't know.

 

[Dry Rot]

I suppose the crux of it is they are illegal to use on cattle in the UK.
If you chose to use one and believe you can justify it, then make sure you can as worst case it could end up in court.

I don't own one and can't see why I need one. I have heard of dairy heifers about to be culled as they couldn't be milked. Farmer tried the device and got them milking, how true that is I don't know.

I don't own one either. In fact, I don't even have cattle! But there is something that sticks in my craw when people tell me that something should be banned and, when asked, they can't justify WHY it should be banned.

British law is often vague and it is for the courts to interpret and come to a judgement. To simply announce that something is "cruel" because we (the general public) don't like the thought of it; without a scrap of proof, no evidence, no testing, takes us back to the Middle Ages. In short, it isn't the way a civilised society is meant to operate.

 

[Cowcalf]

I don't own one either. In fact, I don't even have cattle! But there is something that sticks in my craw when people tell me that something should be banned and, when asked, they can't justify WHY it should be banned.

British law is often vague and it is for the courts to interpret and come to a judgement. To simply announce that something is "cruel" because we (the general public) don't like the thought of it; without a scrap of proof, no evidence, no testing, takes us back to the Middle Ages. In short, it isn't the way a civilised society is meant to operate.

A strange fact is they are legal for a vet to use, so why if they are as some describe on here is it ok for the vet but not the stock man, pain is pain, does the farmer need to go on a course to recognize it ?
There are plenty of times in our own life and animals that something is happening to us is unpleasant but is necessary.

 

[milkloss]

I would suspect the device is so effective that they are frightened some may use it and not any local anaesthetic. Perhaps that's thier little secret and why no real research has been done on the job.

 

[Fergieman]

There was a man selling these type of tools at the livestock show and the Carlisle Dairy expo. The ones on sale had a lead out of the inserted bit (Vibrator) to a control box with a dial on it to increase power as required. Didn't buy one but it looked good on his video's.

 

[Cowcalf]

I would suspect the device is so effective that they are frightened some may use it and not any local anaesthetic. Perhaps that's thier little secret and why no real research has been done on the job.

but the guys who do not use anaesthetic would not be using it with or without the probe, probe only keeps animal still and safe, NO anaesthetic effect at all.
But some folk have operations with acupuncture and hypnosis so who knows.
one vet told me he would rather be living and illegal than dead and legal

 

[borderterribles]

While I agree with a lot of what bovine says, especially about the odd person who would misuse this, I have a question.
Have you ever tubed a cow with an acute mastitis, who was so sore she tried to kick your head off as you tubed her? You can try and be as gentle and quiet as you like, but she doesn't understand that you are trying to help her. Often some ends up on the floor. She needs the tube, you need your head.
A cow of ours cut her leg, and the sedative the vet gave her hardly touched the cow. Fortunately the vet succeeded, with no personal injury to stitch her up, but only just, and she is still with us.
Would you prefer these cows to just be shot?
Apparently they use a similar device on women to encourage the pelvic floor muscles to redevelop after childbirth, in extreme cases.

I've been discussing this thread with @Supergirl , who reports that one of her sisters had this "treatment" following childbirth in New Zealand. I can also confirm that the calming effects are only temporary, as the sister in question is an evil tempered bitch to this day!

 

[bovine]

Have a look at the attachment and see if you feel any better informed.

(thanks to the person who sent me the link via PM)

 

[haulmblower]

I feel better informed.
I can understand why the risk of death would stop manufacturers setting up human trials and the risk of surgery without anaesthetic on animals is unacceptable
So I'm against it other than used by a vet.
Thank you for the information

 

[spin cycle]

Have a look at the attachment and see if you feel any better informed.

(thanks to the person who sent me the link via PM)

very informative ...there is some negative data and of course risks of abuse ....but then if you're the type of person who abuses their stock you can manage quite happily without EI's help i should think
surely if you had some basic training it might have a place?....don't know why vets should be able to use them but not anybody else particularly?
not banned in EU apart from UK and ROI...what a surprise
there's the bit about 'under EI not being to express pain'....but in some of the crushes i've been looking at online the animal is fully restrained so surely that animal would have trouble 'expressing pain'?....plus if an animal doesn't flinch an injection etc is quicker/more accurate and thus less painlful?
vets in aus/nz and usa can use them...EU is fine....so its just UK +ROI
bovine do you support their use by vets?....would you use one?

 

[Willy A]

Have a look at the attachment and see if you feel any better informed.

(thanks to the person who sent me the link via PM)

If you read the attached it says the report is based on the system using 2 probes attached to different parts of a cows body. This is cruel and why the Irish banned it.
It mentions the rectal probe just to say they are aware of it. This report is not applicable.
As said before it has not been tested. It could be cruel but please stick to facts.