Farming without subsidy: England post BPS measurable outcomes.What will the impact be beyond the farm gate.

[topground]

DEFRA have set out a scheme with 280 options (and counting) to replace BPS few of which appear to have any measurable outcomes to demonstrate public money for public good and do not provide adequate compensation for government interference in food production.
This forum provides an information exchange that will help those who don’t see signing up for SFI or CS as a sensible option to find a way forward farming without subsidy.
What will change on your farm if you decide that the numbers don’t stack up particularly taking into account the hassle of having RPA and Natural England trying to trip you up and meddle in your business?
What will you not be spending previous BPS money on.
What will change in the management of your farm.
How do you see the way forward farming without subsidy?
What will be the measurable outcomes on the rural economy and the landscape of no subsidy for food production particularly on all grass units?
What will be the impact in the economy beyond the farm gate?

 

[J 1177]

From my farm point of view, iv got good gear and buildings that helps but when bps finally goes il up my stock numbers, crop every inch of the place (all margins ploughed out).
Il carry on with my off farm work.
When bps runs out iv got a couple of finance agreements coming to an end so that should free up enough money to tick over.
Now when this happens unless market conditions improve investment in machinery and infastructure will stop. I can maybe carry on 5 to 10 years like that but eventually decisions will have to be made what to do.
Il be ok but those suppliers that i deal with will be hit hard (my contribution is only small) im sure others may follow suit so i can see the rural economy really suffering.

 

[Wood field]

As I said elsewhere, 68 hectares x £98 is the base before delving in to the miriad of options
Pp on sda land average 1200’ . We run 600 ewes and a few cows, ( some on common grazing) it took me a long time to finally get our farm and if needs be I will crack on without the subs rather than hand myself over to the likes of NE
If ever proof they want rid of livestock from the hills this scheme is it .
Surely they would see local sustainable protein and the carbon capture of these pastures as a public benefit , but it doesn’t seem to fit the agenda

 

[curlietailz]

From my farm point of view, iv got good gear and buildings that helps but when bps finally goes il up my stock numbers, crop every inch of the place (all margins ploughed out).
Il carry on with my off farm work.
When bps runs out iv got a couple of finance agreements coming to an end so that should free up enough money to tick over.
Now when this happens unless market conditions improve investment in machinery and infastructure will stop. I can maybe carry on 5 to 10 years like that but eventually decisions will have to be made what to do.
Il be ok but those suppliers that i deal with will be hit hard (my contribution is only small) im sure others may follow suit so i can see the rural economy really suffering.

I agree
This will most likely be our strategy
More off farm work
Little machinery investment
Tick over spending less in the local economy

 

[J 1177]

I agree
This will most likely be our strategy
More off farm work
Little machinery investment
Tick over spending less in the local economy

Do they think the bps goes into a account in the cayman islands, do they not realise its spent before its recieved in the local rural economy

 

[BrianV]

Those good old badgers what a mess governments have made & continue to do so.
study-examines-link-between-red-deer-and-cattle-tb-on-exmoor

Study examines link between red deer and cattle TB on Exmoor​

 

[Lothian]

Not in Englandshire but I suspect Scotland will do the usual sub strategy of "whatever England does but five years later" so I think this is coming up the line for us.

The solution I think for us will be use old machinery, spend hee haw on the local economy and try to cut as much fixed cost and labour as possible. Big hole to fill but probably achievable for a lot of mostly arable units but the pure livestock farmers are going to struggle.

Worth noting that inflation has already eroded the value of the IACS by about 40% since the year 2000 and it is only going to get worse.

 

[super4]

I agree
This will most likely be our strategy
More off farm work
Little machinery investment
Tick over spending less in the local economy

Agree with yours and J 1177 sentiment. What though if your a tenant? Main grain store 45 yrs old etc I feel ELMS has totally taken away any positivity that was remaining in the Ag Sector unless your a large farmer who can jump through the required hoops Defra require.

 

[Pan mixer]

I suspect that even more small farms will go in the end.

I have just over 150 ha and last year made £600 more profit than my subsidy, nothing that I see in the SFI will fill the hole in this years SFP reduction as far as I can see.

Nutrient use efficiency, soil assessment, integrated pest (weed) management, soil OM analysis, and an annual review of pig, sheep and beef cattle health and welfare will all have to be done involving 'experts' - vets, FACTS trained people and so on and will involve big bills from the 'experts' involved.

The only thing that I can see to do on my own is to claim for not spraying insecticide on my cereals.

I have CS on the whole farm, currently NE are fining me for the reduction of low input grassland because I dug a 1 Ha pond and planted some bushes around it and didn't have that on my CS in the first place. The mere fact that what I have replaced the GS2 with is much more environmentally friendly butters no parsnips with NE which is annoying in the extreme.

 

[BrianV]

I suspect that even more small farms will go in the end.

I have just over 150 ha and last year made £600 more profit than my subsidy, nothing that I see in the SFI will fill the hole in this years SFP reduction as far as I can see.

Nutrient use efficiency, soil assessment, integrated pest (weed) management, soil OM analysis, and an annual review of pig, sheep and beef cattle health and welfare will all have to be done involving 'experts' - vets, FACTS trained people and so on and will involve big bills from the 'experts' involved.

The only thing that I can see to do on my own is to claim for not spraying insecticide on my cereals.

I have CS on the whole farm, currently NE are fining me for the reduction of low input grassland because I dug a 1 Ha pond and planted some bushes around it and didn't have that on my CS in the first place. The mere fact that what I have replaced the GS2 with is much more environmentally friendly butters no parsnips with NE which is annoying in the extreme.

You really can't win with these pillocks!

 

[JockCroft]

Not in Englandshire but I suspect Scotland will do the usual sub strategy of "whatever England does but five years later" so I think this is coming up the line for us.

The solution I think for us will be use old machinery, spend hee haw on the local economy and try to cut as much fixed cost and labour as possible. Big hole to fill but probably achievable for a lot of mostly arable units but the pure livestock farmers are going to struggle.

Worth noting that inflation has already eroded the value of the IACS by about 40% since the year 2000 and it is only going to get worse.

Been happening with livestock farms for years. Lot less inputs, lower output but with a little luck a meagre living. Fit younger ones maybe have opportunity to do days here and there contract livestock work. The insane buy(lease) a machine to contract with, until they finally admit its loosing money.
As long as we still have livestock markets there are people with generations of survivability bred into them.

It looks as if there is not the impending food shortages everyone was pinning their hopes on.

I have been told that current changes in Scottish support are very short term, and that a complete rewrite is being prepared for 3 years time.

 

[CornishTone]

Some obvious points:
1. The wider DEFRA family clearly don't want, or at least don't want to be seen to be supporting, livestock agriculture.
2. A point well made by @Abi Kay and James Reebanks earlier; Government paid out £188bn+ on covid, but somehow seem to think they can change the entire English landscape, alter the domestic food production system, meet their fatuous net zero targets, and reverse species decline, all for £2.4bn.
3. And they're going to heap pretty much all of the responsibility for the above onto farmers, and when the targets aren't met... guess who'll get the blame?!

We are being made the scapegoats for every household and industry in the country.

So, what to do:

Take the money for anything simple and we're doing already, or I can do without paying anyone else to be involved.
Minimise any dealings with the RPA wherever possible in order to manage stress levels.
And calmly carry on!
There will be adaptation and change, just have to duck and dive to find a way through it all.

I feel like there a massive chip developing on my shoulder, but it's hard not to feel that way looking at the weight of sh!t coming down the road at the industry.

 

[texelburger]

I've had a look at what is on offer and got a little confused with all the Elms,SFI ,CS etc 280 plus options,stacking but not double funding so have decided to give most of it a miss.The amount of questions people are asking Janet Hughes confirms this and with further changes and developments to the scheme it could get more complex.The less involvement with NE the better because as sure as night turns into day I will do something wrong.I will,however,look at some of the options that won't cost money or take land out of production.
We are in a CS scheme but probably won't renew.
I'm annoyed by the no insecticide payment as it would be a disaster in our area,it certainly is a postcode payment which discriminates against areas of England .
Fortunately we have a productive farm capable of good yields so are in a relatively good position to carry on farming.I do feel the livestock and hill farmers have had a bad deal which is,imo,very unfair and feel DEFRA must make changes NOW to rectify this.

 

[Bossfarmer]

the beef and sheep industries are finished, some without much borrowings will scrape along for a few years without buying kit or investing in their farms but farmings a long game, 10 years after the sub removal livestock numbers will be a fraction of what they are now, many smaller/medium sized farms gone or part time

 

[flowerpot]

I suspect that even more small farms will go in the end.

I have just over 150 ha and last year made £600 more profit than my subsidy, nothing that I see in the SFI will fill the hole in this years SFP reduction as far as I can see.

Nutrient use efficiency, soil assessment, integrated pest (weed) management, soil OM analysis, and an annual review of pig, sheep and beef cattle health and welfare will all have to be done involving 'experts' - vets, FACTS trained people and so on and will involve big bills from the 'experts' involved.

The only thing that I can see to do on my own is to claim for not spraying insecticide on my cereals.

I have CS on the whole farm, currently NE are fining me for the reduction of low input grassland because I dug a 1 Ha pond and planted some bushes around it and didn't have that on my CS in the first place. The mere fact that what I have replaced the GS2 with is much more environmentally friendly butters no parsnips with NE which is annoying in the extreme.

I spoke to someone who had been doing CS for several years and had had the required inspections. When the scheme came to an end and after the final inspection they wanted to reduce the payment by £10,000. I think they managed to get that down a bit, but it isn't very encouraging for others.

 

[topground]

the beef and sheep industries are finished, some without much borrowings will scrape along for a few years without buying kit or investing in their farms but farmings a long game, 10 years after the sub removal livestock numbers will be a fraction of what they are now, many smaller/medium sized farms gone or part time

And with the livestock going so will the reliance on artificial fertilisers increase or crop yields will fall as happened toward the end of WW 2 as the push to plough everything led to a reduction in livestock numbers.
Reduce livestock numbers to save the planet and increase reliance on fossil fuel based artificial fertilisers.
They employ some special kind of one step thinkers in DEFRA.

 

[No wot]

Just remember it's not just the loss of the area payment sub it's the tripple whammy of loss of sub , the open door Government policy of cheap unregulated food imports and the ramping up of regulations and rules that undermine competitiveness on domestic producers , will the last farmer please shut the gate ☹

 

[jonnieboy]

Being 100% arable and heading down the dd route future SFI looks a win for me as we are mostly already doing most of the standards ….
But
We don’t grow milling wheat and mostly supply the animal feed market as it’s our local market so is our market going to disappear ?????