Fishing rights renegotiation

[Jimfandango]

Hi.
We have a longstanding agreement with a local hotel to use the fishing on our land. It is approximately 1 mile of one side of the bank of good fly fishing. It was only for £450/yr and I am not really sure what the terms of the agreement are but it has suited both parties fine over the previous decades. However, the hotel has been sold and the new owners want to renegotiate the rights agreement. This is fair enough but as we don't have any sense of goodwill built up with the new owners I don't think I should be so laissez faire about the new terms.
I just wanted to know if anybody has any agreements like this in place, what rental fee I should be asking for something like this, and if there are any potential pitfalls to be avoided.
Many thanks

 

[Wooly]

Location is the key.

One mile of good fly fishing with salmon, next to a posh hotel in Scotland is worth considerably more than £450....... but might not be worth that on the River Medway adjacent to a Travel Lodge !!

 

[Flat 10]

Must be sporting agents who could advise? Gut feeling says add at least a 0 to your previous price and maybe negotiate a free meal or two....

 

[Jimfandango]

Its the river lottery in Cornwall. Its a tributary of the Tamar. Mainly trout and potentially early salmon. I'm not a fisherman but I don't think it's prime fishing, it's also not poor either

 

[Jimfandango]

Its the river lottery in Cornwall. Its a tributary of the Tamar. Mainly trout and potentially early salmon. I'm not a fisherman but I don't think it's prime fishing, it's also not poor either

*Ottery

 

[Jimfandango]

Alternatively I could take it into my own hands and offer fishing myself.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Random new owners want to renegotiate the terms how and why?

 

[br jones]

River wye ,2 miles of fishing rights for salmon and trout was just sold at 350000 for 20 years

 

[Jimfandango]

Random new owners want to renegotiate the terms how and why?

I'm guessing they are doing a bit of spring cleaning and they want to start a fresh... or they want to squeeze me for some extra work I.e. maintenance. I don't want to go into it without as much information as I can gather really.

 

[An Gof]

Its the river lottery in Cornwall. Its a tributary of the Tamar. Mainly trout and potentially early salmon. I'm not a fisherman but I don't think it's prime fishing, it's also not poor either

Have a look at what The Arundel Arms Or Endsleigh charge for a weeks fishing. I think you will find it is worth a fair bit.

 

[An Gof]

Here you go .., £35-45 per rod per day your £450 per year is the bargain of the century.

https://www.arundellarms.com/resources/files/2020_Arundell_Fishing_Calendar.pdf

 

[Wooly]

I reckon that the new owner might regret wanting to renegotiate the price !!

 

[Goweresque]

According to this link (https://www.spinfish.co.uk/Article-fishingseasondatesengland.html) the river Otter trout season is from 15th April to 31st October, ie 200 days exactly. If you allowed one rod per day on average at £30/head, thats £6k. I'm not surprised the previous agreement suited the owners of the hotel, they were making out like bandits............

Edit: misread River Ottery for Otter, but Tamar river is even longer season, 3rd march to 31st Oct, so even more potential fishing days.

 

[GreenerGrass]

My local fishing club leases 3 miles of wild brown trout fishing small stream for £1,000+VAT year, and that is both banks. This is in Somerset. I looked at the river ottery and not knowing how close you are to the headwaters it looks a small river.

I suspect you can negotiate a rent increase, but don't get too carried away by what the posters above are saying.

 

[betweenthelines]

Could the previous owners tell you how many rods/season they used to get and at what fee?

I'd be looking at getting 50% of what the hotel charges/receives

 

[Goweresque]

Could the previous owners tell you how many rods/season they used to get and at what fee?

I'd be looking at getting 50% of what the hotel charges/receives

Why 50%? Is the OP getting 50% of the profit from the hotel rooms sold to the anglers? The hotel is making money from the rooms, why should they make 50% of the money from the angling rights, which belong 100% to the OP? I'd suggest that the OP sell individual tickets to the hotel as and when they get customers who come in wanting them. The whole point of the hotel having angling rights is to attract custom to their hotel, they don't deserve any of the angling rights profits at all.

 

[kiwi pom]

One of the things I like about NZ, no one owns the rivers or the rights. $100 or so for a yearly licence and off you go, subject to catch limits and legal methods of course.

It means fishing isn't just for those with loads of money and is often more about catching a feed than just the sport.
Hunting isn't about who has the most money either.
I suppose it wouldn't work in the UK.

Apologies to he OP, no help, just rambling.

 

[Dry Rot]

Angling rights are sold by capitalising the annual number of fish caught, same as shooting or stalking. The hotel ought to keep a record of catches which may actually be accurate as it will help with hotel bookings if they can show what is caught.

Not worth messing about. Contact one of the larger land agency firms, when when they come up with an extortionate figure you can blame them and mutter something about family trusts and not being up to you! You could approach the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors for a (free) list of specialists or just approach one of the firms selling rural properties like Strutt & Parker, Bell Ingram, etc.

 

[Dry Rot]

One of the things I like about NZ, no one owns the rivers or the rights. $100 or so for a yearly licence and off you go, subject to catch limits and legal methods of course.

It means fishing isn't just for those with loads of money and is often more about catching a feed than just the sport.
Hunting isn't about who has the most money either.
I suppose it wouldn't work in the UK.

Apologies to he OP, no help, just rambling.

Traditionally, brown trout fishing was free in Scotland, though not sure if that still applies. At one time I was so addicted to fishing, I had to do cold turkey. And still do! Anglers' Anonymous! No fishing for me.

 

[betweenthelines]

Why 50%? Is the OP getting 50% of the profit from the hotel rooms sold to the anglers? The hotel is making money from the rooms, why should they make 50% of the money from the angling rights, which belong 100% to the OP? I'd suggest that the OP sell individual tickets to the hotel as and when they get customers who come in wanting them. The whole point of the hotel having angling rights is to attract custom to their hotel, they don't deserve any of the angling rights profits at all.

The hotel is doing the marketing and administration of the OP's fishing rights. They need some incentive to do that unless the OP is willing to do it all himself. If the hotel doesn't make anything out the fishing rights, they won't play any more.

PS 50% of sales isn't 50% of profits