Fleckvieh - Dual Purpose

[Baling Hay]

The dairy like calf will still be an issue though. The brown Swiss x Holstein calf is basically a Holstein type calf.

Agreed, but you have to remember that the milk cheque is more important than the bull calf.

Example:
100 cow herd
Let's say 95 live calves to 6 weeks old, 50% of these will be bulls so approx. 43 bull calves
Let's say the fleckvieh calve is worth £150 more
43 calves x £150 = £6450
Or to make it even simpler it will be an extra £75 per cow and with milk at 35ppl (high components) that is only 214 litres of milk or 3% of the milk cheque for a 7000 litre herd

However,
there is the risk of more difficult calvings and longer gestation periods which would wipe that £75 plus more out.

I think the real benefit isn't so much the bull calve value but possibly adding strength to a weak cow to improve longevity, reduce vet bills etc.

I just wonder how much more milk would the german brown swiss give compared to the fleckvieh? Martin, being a spermex agent do you not sell German Brown swiss as well?

 

[M-J-G]

Agreed, but you have to remember that the milk cheque is more important than the bull calf.

Example:
100 cow herd
Let's say 95 live calves to 6 weeks old, 50% of these will be bulls so approx. 43 bull calves
Let's say the fleckvieh calve is worth £150 more
43 calves x £150 = £6450
Or to make it even simpler it will be an extra £75 per cow and with milk at 35ppl (high components) that is only 214 litres of milk or 3% of the milk cheque for a 7000 litre herd

However,
there is the risk of more difficult calvings and longer gestation periods which would wipe that £75 plus more out.

I think the real benefit isn't so much the bull calve value but possibly adding strength to a weak cow to improve longevity, reduce vet bills etc.

I just wonder how much more milk would the german brown swiss give compared to the fleckvieh? Martin, being a spermex agent do you not sell German Brown swiss as well?

No I just sell Fleckvieh for them.

The bull calf value is an interesting one!

Correctly selected sires of any breed shouldn't really give issues with gestations or calving, let's face it plenty of Holstein bull calves are difficult enough to calve and they are still worth frigg all! I've calved 22-24month old beef heifers to fleckvieh sires and they were no bother, and the calves grew like weeds.

The £75 you speak of isn't to be compared to a 35p litre of milk it has to be compared to the profit per litre as the better calf will be born with no extra cost over and above a bad one if all else is the same.

At 5ppl profit (which would be good) £75 is the profit from 1500l of milk sold, if milk profit is less then it is more litres.

Why are all these frail dairy cows going to fall apart and sh!t themselves if they have a half decent sized calf? If they are that frail then the situation is worse than I thought it was and it's definitely time some genetics were getting altered, and rapidly!!!

Lets not forget selling surplus heifers, suckler men are interested in a good fleckvieh heifer these days.

1/3 to 1/4 of the German Fleckvieh herds annual income is generated from selling stock.

 

[Baling Hay]

No I just sell Fleckvieh for them.

The bull calf value is an interesting one!

Correctly selected sires of any breed shouldn't really give issues with gestations or calving, let's face it plenty of Holstein bull calves are difficult enough to calve and they are still worth frigg all! I've calved 22-24month old beef heifers to fleckvieh sires and they were no bother, and the calves grew like weeds.

The £75 you speak of isn't to be compared to a 35p litre of milk it has to be compared to the profit per litre as the better calf will be born with no extra cost over and above a bad one if all else is the same.

At 5ppl profit (which would be good) £75 is the profit from 1500l of milk sold, if milk profit is less then it is more litres.

Why are all these frail dairy cows going to fall apart and sh!t themselves if they have a half decent sized calf? If they are that frail then the situation is worse than I thought it was and it's definitely time some genetics were getting altered, and rapidly!!!

Lets not forget selling surplus heifers, suckler men are interested in a good fleckvieh heifer these days.

1/3 to 1/4 of the German Fleckvieh herds annual income is generated from selling stock.

It isn't so much that the frail dairy cow will croak it, it is just a comparison between a very easy calving bull like jersey or viking red, the cow farts and the calf falls out and goes on to produce in a healthy lactation. We have had more trouble calving the monty x heifers than the jersey x's, I reckon that is because the jersey x has a wide pelvic area. I think the fleckvieh would be a good bull onto the jersey cow but others seem to think otherwise (jersey breeders).

 

[Samcowman]

Bought a bull couple of days ago for use on our sucklers as part of the 3 way cross View attachment 24180
Not sure of his sire will ask Tom tomorrow. Only 13 months so has got a bit of growing to do yet.

Spoke to Tom today and our bulls sire is Resolut. Also told him about this thread.

 

[M-J-G]

Spoke to Tom today and our bulls sire is Resolut. Also told him about this thread.

The Resolut's are good cattle, as I said earlier there is a lot thought of that bull, plenty of milk for you Sam. I hope he does well.

 

[Samcowman]

The Resolut's are good cattle, as I said earlier there is a lot thought of that bull, plenty of milk for you Sam. I hope he does well.

How easily have you found heifers calving to the fleckvieh? Have a few angus heifers which are sired by the bull we put on the heifers which will probably go to the bull and was wondering if it would be too risky to use him on them.

 

[M-J-G]

It was angus heifers that I used Fleckvieh on to up the milk, and the calves were small and born unassisted, Tom may be better able to advise on the bull you have bought as he saw him born and has seen him all the way up until now.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Question for the Fleckvieh men. If I crossed a pure Fleck. bull over my standard UK bloodline bred Simm. beef cows , can I expect an increase in milk from the daughters and , if so , roughly by how much?

Putting what they'll do for the dairyman on one side , these cows in the photos are exactly the sort of quality , finer framed ,milky cow that would do an absolutely blinding job in a beef suckler herd. That's pretty much exactly the type of Simm. female I like and would want on the place.

 

[Shep]

Sure maybe you'l be at the winter fair this day week Keith drop in, she'll be on the stand and your more then welcome to see it. With all the figures an all.

I'd rather see her at home in her working clothes. Don't forget to leave a bit of milk on her Ally. You're really a fortnight too late anyway, should of had her at Allams, that's the place for sucklers.

 

[M-J-G]

Question for the Fleckvieh men. If I crossed a pure Fleck. bull over my standard UK bloodline bred Simm. beef cows , can I expect an increase in milk from the daughters and , if so , roughly by how much?

Putting what they'll do for the dairyman on one side , these cows in the photos are exactly the sort of quality , finer framed ,milky cow that would do an absolutely blinding job in a beef suckler herd. That's pretty much exactly the type of Simm. female I like and would want on the place.

They will have an increase in milk production, exactly how much would be difficult to say. But if you have plenty of milk in your cow already a high milk bull might give you milk to excessive levels. Or you could use a low milk index bull and see how that went. I found Fleck calves out of Sim cows to be very lively calves, just like hybrids. I guess it's because they are pretty much a total outcross.

 

[Gulli]

The German Brown Swiss must be another good alternative fro crossbreeding? Would have better feet than the fleckvieh with the black hoof.

Swiss are a fantastic cross on a lot of cows
Black hooves don't have much to do with lameness though

 

[Baling Hay]

Swiss are a fantastic cross on a lot of cows
Black hooves don't have much to do with lameness though

Our jersey x's have black hooves and they hardly ever get lame and seem to get less dermatitis also, I think the black skin is maybe more resistant to it.

 

[Gulli]

Our jersey x's have black hooves and they hardly ever get lame and seem to get less dermatitis also, I think the black skin is maybe more resistant to it.

That's not down to hoof colour though, see plenty of lameness in black hooves too. Its down to management/genetics

 

[FonterraFarmer]

The fleckvieh is the worlds Second breed for milking after the Holstein, I've a cow in her 2nd lac 9780kg in 305 days. 4.2 fats 3.9 protein. I'm happy enough not losing much milk at that. An still to go up. I no maybe the Holstein will do a slight bit more But it burns it's self out on the first lac and after that it ready then for the cull.

The fleckvieh is the worlds second breed for milk after the Holstein??? I find that hard to beleive, you got the statistics to back that up or what?

 

[M-J-G]

The fleckvieh is the worlds second breed for milk after the Holstein??? I find that hard to beleive, you got the statistics to back that up or what?

Why would you find it so hard to believe? We had a lot of debate on this in the Jersey Cow thread, no figures to say that any breed is no. 2 in the world.

But the most of the largest milk producing nations have massive Fleckvieh populations and they are definitely the 2nd largest breed overall at 41million and there are more DP fleckvieh than beef ones.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Why would you find it so hard to believe? We had a lot of debate on this in the Jersey Cow thread, no figures to say that any breed is no. 2.

But the most of the largest milk producing nations have massive Fleckvieh populations.

You might be right, or you could be wrong, but does that also include Fleckvieh cross as well? Am I right in the assumption that they are derived from Simmental? I've heard of MRI, but never heard of Fleckvieh here in NZ.
( We have a "No Simmental" policy on this farm)

 

[M-J-G]

You might be right, or you could be wrong, but does that also include Fleckvieh cross as well? Am I right in the assumption that they are derived from Simmental? I've heard of MRI, but never heard of Fleckvieh here in NZ.
( We have a "No Simmental" policy on this farm)

World stats are really hard to come by. But if I find another milk breed with over 20 million population then I may start to wonder.

Crossing with FKV is a fairly new concept and in not their main purpose, hence why the "Holstein nations" (USA,UK etc) are only really only learning of their presence. Nations with large populations are pretty much all pure.

Sim and FKV are the same, originally called Sims if from Switzerland and called Fleckvieh if from Germany or Austria. Now it depends where in the world you are from as to which title they get. Most beef lines around the world especially the UK & Ireland are derived from Dual purpose Fleckvieh as the vast majority of original imports came from Germany and Austria where nearly all are miked. In the Alpine regions of these countries the rule of thumb is, if you can access the farm for milk collection they will milk their cows. If not they will just be beef farmers.

In the UK the DP gets called Fleckvieh and the beef animal a Simmental.

 

[Baling Hay]

Found a video of a jersey x fleckvieh! Looks a fine animal!

 

[AlistergibsonFleckvieh]

You'l maybe try them on your jersey's Steakeater,

As far as I know are bull Waldbrand is number 1 bull in the latest proofs. Great news..

 

[M-J-G]

You'l maybe try them on your jersey's Steakeater,

As far as I know are bull Waldbrand is number 1 bull in the latest proofs. Great news..

Yeah Waldbrand and Vanadin are joined top with TMI 137