Footpath problem

[Tomjoad]

During Covid we’ve had many more people using the footpaths. It doesn’t bother me but as usual there’s always one......

A person from the village continually walks where she pleases around the farm. I’ve explained politely where the footpaths go and the importance of sticking to them and she says she’s ‘not doing any harm’ and says she’s just cutting through from one footpath to join with another.

With most people, I’ll explain once and there won’t be any further problems. She’s fully aware of the route of the footpaths but does as she pleases.

My patience is wearing thin, but what can I actually do?

 

[CPF]

If she is from your village have a walk around her garden ,and take the dog with you, and when she comes out shouting at you , say you are retrieving your dog .

 

[Paul E]

Don't use the dog as an excuse.....
Just say you're not doing any harm, and cutting from one neighbour to the other.
If she has a brain cell she'll take the hint. If she doesn't, then she's probably too thick to be reasoned with.
Time to buy a nasty bull.?

 

[milkloss]

I have the same issue. Not sure there is really an answer part from keep badgering them. If it’s likely to get heated then inform the local fuzz that you will keep politely reminding her she’s not on the footpath. You don’t want her to make up some boollocks first.

 

[dudders]

She's quite possibly doing it to establish a right, eg. another public footpath. Best to record you challenging her on video a couple of times, so she can't one day claim she's been doing it for twenty years without hindrance.

Also you can tell your local county council highways department that you are aware of this or that public footpath on your land and you do not intend that any others shall be created. It's kind of a formal statement, that they must register. It doesn't work retrospectively, but it'll screw anyone in the year 2022 declaring that they've used a path since 2002.

 

[J 1177]

On your property, you've warned her, physically remove her, i have done this in the past it's your property. Film it if you like so she can't accuse you of all sorts. Don't be polite, she isn't being by her actions

 

[Tomjoad]

Thanks for replies so far.

I’ll persist but I know she’ll keep doing it

 

[YorkshireAndrew]

I politely but firmly told a woman who was wandering all over the place to keep to the footpath , she reported me to the police & I received a phone call to say my name had come up in relation to a public order offence . See my topic ‘Snowflake dog walker’ .

 

[7610 super q]

Every village seems to have one.
Anyhoo, when I win the lottery..........

 

[Danllan]

On your property, you've warned her, physically remove her, i have done this in the past it's your property. Film it if you like so she can't accuse you of all sorts. Don't be polite, she isn't being by her actions

Do be polite. Getting physical? Avoid if at all possible, which it is.

@Tomjoad by an odd coincidence a friend of mine back in Herts had a similar problem a while ago...

If you can find out her name and address do so. Record all your interactions with her using a 'phone camera if possible, address her as 'Ms Xxx of 22 Dog Walk Ave. If you can't find out her name, ask her; report each one to the local plod and get a ref' number for it, then report to your County Council with that number, requesting a written response confirming that they have been made aware of her actions each and every time.

Once you have a few of these you can quite legitimately claim harassment on a Civil basis and, if she's walking over crops or cutting grass, Criminal Damage. If she is b^ggering your work around Aggravated Trespass is an option too, this is possible under two of three heads*; probably stretching it for the third though, because I doubt she intimidates you.

What you must establish is that she knows she is not using public rights of way, that she knows she does not have your permission to do so, that she knows she is damaging your crops / grass, and that she knows she is making your life difficult, preventing work causing stress etc.. By all means be firm, but do be POLITE!

Having got the necessary evidence you can either hand it over to the local plod who, if decent, will do the necessary or - better chance of getting it done - do it yourself. Make an application to the Court yourself, the local Magistrates can hand out a CPN or CBO or, a civil order - yes, they can do that.

In any case, once one of these is handed out, if she continues, she'll either be in Breach or Contempt and that is a direct Criminal offence; the Courts take themselves very seriously, and really don't like being ignored.

One thing is / may be relevant, and I have heard of this but have no personal experience - if she has some form of dementia or other psychiatric condition, you will be unlikely to achieve anything practical.

That written, I have heard of some instances where a landowner tried to get a trespasser to stop and, after an interaction, felt that the individual had psychological problems and was, therefore, probably in some considerable danger by being in an agricultural industrial location. A call to the police, letting them know of a vulnerable person in danger, can be a very quick way to see such a person safely removed.


*CJPO 1994 s68 (1) (b) & (c) do allow for ag' trespass if she obstructs / disrupts your work.

 

[J 1177]

Do be polite. Getting physical? Avoid if at all possible, which it is.

@Tomjoad by an odd coincidence a friend of mine back in Herts had a similar problem a while ago...

If you can find out her name and address do so. Record all your interactions with her using a 'phone camera if possible, address her as 'Ms Xxx of 22 Dog Walk Ave. If you can't find out her name, ask her; report each one to the local plod and get a ref' number for it, then report to your County Council with that number, requesting a written response confirming that they have been made aware of her actions each and every time.

Once you have a few of these you can quite legitimately claim harassment on a Civil basis and, if she's walking over crops or cutting grass, Criminal Damage. If she is b^ggering your work around Aggravated Trespass is an option too, this is possible under two of three heads*; probably stretching it for the third though, because I doubt she intimidates you.

What you must establish is that she knows she is not using public rights of way, that she knows she does not have your permission to do so, that she knows she is damaging your crops / grass, and that she knows she is making your life difficult, preventing work causing stress etc.. By all means be firm, but do be POLITE!

Having got the necessary evidence you can either hand it over to the local plod who, if decent, will do the necessary or - better chance of getting it done - do it yourself. Make an application to the Court yourself, the local Magistrates can hand out a CPN or CBO or, a civil order - yes, they can do that.

In any case, once one of these is handed out, if she continues, she'll either be in Breach or Contempt and that is a direct Criminal offence; the Courts take themselves very seriously, and really don't like being ignored.

One thing is / may be relevant, and I have heard of this but have no personal experience - if she has some form of dementia or other psychiatric condition, you will be unlikely to achieve anything practical.

That written, I have heard of some instances where a landowner tried to get a trespasser to stop and, after an interaction, felt that the individual had psychological problems and was, therefore, probably in some considerable danger by being in an agricultural industrial location. A call to the police, letting them know of a vulnerable person in danger, can be a very quick way to see such a person safely removed.


*CJPO 1994 s68 (1) (b) & (c) do allow for ag' trespass if she obstructs / disrupts your work.

Nope we've found where we farm if they think your a soft touch you get walked all over. Weve found meeting fire with fire is the only thing that works, im sorry bit it took my dad most of his younger years to get On top of the problem around here that included more than once fighting the blokes that took it upon themselves to treat our place as their own personal back yard.
Now I'm bigger than my old man was (I'm soft as clarts) so I usually just need to tell them to go forth and multiply but the zero tolerance works.
If someone was stood in your back garden that shouldn't be there you'd sling them out, what's the difference

 

[lloyd]

Alternatively start a naturist campsite and when she veers off path
show her the rule book.Think outside the box but you cant use physical force I'm afraid.
We all have these people and they are annoying hypocrites who love winding people up.I have one cutting brand new wire so that will be a criminal offence once caught .

 

[JR.]

Investigate an injunction for trespass - it is being used more and more and when they breach the injunction I believe that they are in contempt of court, and the court does not like that very much.

 

[neilo]

Nope we've found where we farm if they think your a soft touch you get walked all over. Weve found meeting fire with fire is the only thing that works, im sorry bit it took my dad most of his younger years to get On top of the problem around here that included more than once fighting the blokes that took it upon themselves to treat our place as their own personal back yard.
Now I'm bigger than my old man was (I'm soft as clarts) so I usually just need to tell them to go forth and multiply but the zero tolerance works.
If someone was stood in your back garden that shouldn't be there you'd sling them out, what's the difference

^this. Unfortunately it’s the only way with some people, but never ‘start’ anything. We had all sorts of these types when we moved here, and had lots of verbal & physical abuse from people being politely asked to keep their dogs under control, or to stay on the footpath.

Several times Mrs NeilO was physically threatened by men with dogs running loose, coming in as white as a sheet. Call me old fashioned, but that’s like a red rag to a bull for me, and I have escorted several off the premises while explaining the error of their ways.
We did reach the point of reporting each threat to the police, just to get it on record, as I thought it might be getting to the point where something might kick off properly.
It was noticeable that not one of those ‘big men’ were ever seen on the place again as they were just bullies that don’t like it when somebody stands up to them.

We still ge5 a few going off piste regularly, all of which are middle aged local women that think they are something special. One even used the magic trigger words ‘do you know who I am’...

 

[Danllan]

Nope we've found where we farm if they think your a soft touch you get walked all over. Weve found meeting fire with fire is the only thing that works, im sorry bit it took my dad most of his younger years to get On top of the problem around here that included more than once fighting the blokes that took it upon themselves to treat our place as their own personal back yard.
Now I'm bigger than my old man was (I'm soft as clarts) so I usually just need to tell them to go forth and multiply but the zero tolerance works.
If someone was stood in your back garden that shouldn't be there you'd sling them out, what's the difference

Nope. We're discussing a woman, by herself, maybe elderly, infirm or what have you and, almost certainly presenting no threat to the OP whatsoever. I don't doubt that you're big enough to frighten her, well done for that - but, have a think about it, and about the remedies available and how best to use them.

 

[J 1177]

Nope. We're discussing a woman, by herself, maybe elderly, infirm or what have you and, almost certainly presenting no threat to the OP whatsoever. I don't doubt that you're big enough to frighten her, well done for that - but, have a think about it, and about the remedies available and how best to use them.

I don't mean smack her .she could also be young fitter stonger, how do you knows she's old and infirm. You clearly have no idea about farming on the urban fringe. She's been asked to leave several times

 

[Danllan]

I don't mean smack her .she could also be young fitter stonger, how do you knows she's old and infirm. You clearly have no idea about farming on the urban fringe. She's been asked to leave several times

When I was a kid the nearest 'town' was about four miles in a straight line and six by road; now we're maybe fifteen miles from a proper town, for what that's worth. I've family and friends who farm on the outskirts of Luton, Ayr, Aberystwyth, Minehead, Bedford and more - Luton, from what I've been told, is the worst by far and then, to my surprise, Minehead - maybe holiday-makers?

I've no idea if the woman in question is 26, 66 or anything else other than that she's a woman, by herself.

 

[J 1177]

When I was a kid the nearest 'town' was about four miles in a straight line and six by road; now we're maybe fifteen miles from a proper town, for what that's worth. I've family and friends who farm on the outskirts of Luton, Ayr, Aberystwyth, Minehead, Bedford and more - Luton, from what I've been told, is the worst by far and then, to my surprise, Minehead - maybe holiday-makers?

I've no idea if the woman in question is 26, 66 or anything else other than that she's a woman, by herself.

So what I thought these days is was all about equality. Does being female allow you to trespass. I'm not four miles away I farm next to it.
The feckers around here would laugh at you sending an injunction and file it under bin. Do you think I enjoy having to stop what I'm doing to go and tell someone to stop traipsing around my wheat on a Sunday afternoon. I really don't but that's the reality

 

[Christoph1945]

During Covid we’ve had many more people using the footpaths. It doesn’t bother me but as usual there’s always one......

A person from the village continually walks where she pleases around the farm. I’ve explained politely where the footpaths go and the importance of sticking to them and she says she’s ‘not doing any harm’ and says she’s just cutting through from one footpath to join with another.

With most people, I’ll explain once and there won’t be any further problems. She’s fully aware of the route of the footpaths but does as she pleases.

My patience is wearing thin, but what can I actually do?

I can fully understand your irritability at the situation and despite being a life-long towny do empathise with you. I have read the whole thread and digested the replies and pondered the matter for a while.

Is she old, young, attractive, ugly, well spoken, fully mobile, or perhaps struggling with her mobility? Have you tried engaging her in conversation; above and beyond the disputed matter of access paths? Some have suggested that perhaps the woman may have psychological problems and maybe she has.

Or could she be just checking out your farm security and in that case you really do need to talk to your local plod!

 

[Blue.]

^this. Unfortunately it’s the only way with some people, but never ‘start’ anything. We had all sorts of these types when we moved here, and had lots of verbal & physical abuse from people being politely asked to keep their dogs under control, or to stay on the footpath.

Several times Mrs NeilO was physically threatened by men with dogs running loose, coming in as white as a sheet. Call me old fashioned, but that’s like a red rag to a bull for me, and I have escorted several off the premises while explaining the error of their ways.
We did reach the point of reporting each threat to the police, just to get it on record, as I thought it might be getting to the point where something might kick off properly.
It was noticeable that not one of those ‘big men’ were ever seen on the place again as they were just bullies that don’t like it when somebody stands up to them.

We still ge5 a few going off piste regularly, all of which are middle aged local women that think they are something special. One even used the magic trigger words ‘do you know who I am’...

I once had the “Do you not know who I am? I’m from the village you know” line,I told him I didn’t give a F**k and he could get back on the footpath,it worked well because he told just about everyone in the parish,even 15 years later I get the odd local mention it.