Forage rye silage

[som farmer]

just a thought, are we talking about forage rye, or hybrid rye
Hybrid rye has been developed for the digestor market, specifically as a crop to grow, between 2 maize crops, sow sept after maize, cut apr/may, followed by maize. It has a higher energy value than ordinary forage rye, for the digestor. And it isn't quite as tall as f/rye, 4/5 feet.

 

[William26]

The classic wellie test

 

[cornishfarmer]

I strip graze humbolt rye. Started on 10 March hopefully finished by 10 April when grass has come on enough. Cut and baled in the past and didn’t get on so well as went ‘glassy’ like oats can do sometime. 30 years ago dad tried combining it but it was 10 foot long and had gone down. Was in the drum before it had been cut. Not the best feed value but gets the stock out. About knee high now

 

[beardface]

just a thought, are we talking about forage rye, or hybrid rye
Hybrid rye has been developed for the digestor market, specifically as a crop to grow, between 2 maize crops, sow sept after maize, cut apr/may, followed by maize. It has a higher energy value than ordinary forage rye, for the digestor. And it isn't quite as tall as f/rye, 4/5 feet.

Is it forage rye that you've been growing?

 

[som farmer]

Is it forage rye that you've been growing?

no hybrid
my memories of growing forage rye, and grazing it with dairy cows, the milk took a big downward turn, bugger all in it.
For sucklers, just 'storing' them maybe, milk no. OM grew it to get the cows out early, even he decided it was a waste, in the end, and it grew so quick, start at 6/7ins, finish at 4/5 feet.
Friend grew some for ryveta, we baled the straw, little bales, just couldn't go slow enough.
round bales were better, till it came to unrolling them in winter, 5 foot straw, bit clammy, never again.

 

[whatnow]

Cut ours today

 

[som farmer]

we have yet again failed to get a sensible analysis, because its outside the normal parameters, they wont give it, seeing as that was a full wet analysis, we have given up. What the difference between this yr, and the previous 2, l have no idea, unless they were inaccurate.
All we can say, is it feeds well, and cattle like/do on it.
This year, after w wheat, we will drill w/wold, with perhaps vetch, as the wheat will be earlier off than maize, it could be possible to cut in oct, or perhaps 2 cuts pre maize. But it really pees me off, that we cannot get analysis, 4 firms have tried. With the exception of 1 analysis, which put the protein at 48%, they have all come back, stupidly low, 4 - 8%, So we will try with w/wold, for all we know, it may well be crap. Cattle don't agree though.

 

[DaveGrohl]

just a thought, are we talking about forage rye, or hybrid rye
Hybrid rye has been developed for the digestor market, specifically as a crop to grow, between 2 maize crops, sow sept after maize, cut apr/may, followed by maize. It has a higher energy value than ordinary forage rye, for the digestor. And it isn't quite as tall as f/rye, 4/5 feet.

?
Hybrid rye chopped in July round these parts. No chance of a maize crop after that.

 

[som farmer]

?
Hybrid rye chopped in July round these parts. No chance of a maize crop after that.

we live in the west country, blessed with good climate, and bloody tourists.
Last year, we took a 15t/a of rye vetch, and drilled maize 8 june, and had 18 t/ac, not sure we could do that all the time, and only in certain fields. Which is why we will try w/wold this autumn, it gives us a bigger window to act in, its just a bit tight, time wise. Our contractor grows rye/maize, for a digestor, and quite happily will drill maize, well into june, and to be fair, it usually grows, nearer 5 than 15t/ac, but, added to his rye, he's easily 20 t/ac.

 

[DaveGrohl]

we live in the west country, blessed with good climate, and bloody tourists.
Last year, we took a 15t/a of rye vetch, and drilled maize 8 june, and had 18 t/ac, not sure we could do that all the time, and only in certain fields. Which is why we will try w/wold this autumn, it gives us a bigger window to act in, its just a bit tight, time wise. Our contractor grows rye/maize, for a digestor, and quite happily will drill maize, well into june, and to be fair, it usually grows, nearer 5 than 15t/ac, but, added to his rye, he's easily 20 t/ac.

Prob easier surely to just go straight 20t/acre of hybrid rye? And cheaper. Maybe I’m missing something? You’re saying you’re harvesting milky/cheesy dough hybrid rye wholecrop in Apr/ May yes? Or chopping it like grass? I’m confused.

 

[cquick]

Would rye and red clover mix well?
I'm thinking after it's cut, I could then direct drill maize into the stubble and would have an understory ready to go. A low-ish rate of roundup and a kind pre-em on the maize would give the clover a headache while the crop establishes but it should bounce back later in the summer?

 

[William26]

3rd of April before N went on, shot up since then

 

[som farmer]

Prob easier surely to just go straight 20t/acre of hybrid rye? And cheaper. Maybe I’m missing something? You’re saying you’re harvesting milky/cheesy dough hybrid rye wholecrop in Apr/ May yes? Or chopping it like grass? I’m confused.

taking it 'green' at a supposedly higher energy/protein level, this is what was the idea behind the development of the hybrid, to cut early, and provide stull to feed a digestor.
Left some 2020, to take as w/crop, followed by kale. On the analysis front, some of the 'problem' could be the high stem to grain ratio, though the analysis of the w/c was reasonable, it was definitely a lot of stem.
We were chasing bulk yield, having struggled through 3 very dry summers, and it really did give the bulk, very gratefully received. But the time window, to either get maize, or rye, in, is very tight. Also we have 'changed' the type of dairy cows, from 'spring grazing' type, back to autm calving holstien, giving a lot higher yield, and half the number, so the quality of fodder required has changed.
From all the analysis done, its definitely different, and feeds well, going forward, quality fodder is essential, and we feel, w/wold with, or without vetch, is easier on several fronts, and perhaps more reliable. But h/rye is a great bulk crop, and on the right soil, can give huge quantities of yield, when used with maize - as it was designed to do, and it is certainly not written off here, just trying something different. Both maize, and rye, can utilise a huge amount of slurry, so you are looking at a high bulk, 30 t/ac, with little, or no fert. Rye is a great scavenger of N, so it ticks another box.

 

[DaveGrohl]

taking it 'green' at a supposedly higher energy/protein level, this is what was the idea behind the development of the hybrid, to cut early, and provide stull to feed a digestor.
Left some 2020, to take as w/crop, followed by kale. On the analysis front, some of the 'problem' could be the high stem to grain ratio, though the analysis of the w/c was reasonable, it was definitely a lot of stem.
We were chasing bulk yield, having struggled through 3 very dry summers, and it really did give the bulk, very gratefully received. But the time window, to either get maize, or rye, in, is very tight. Also we have 'changed' the type of dairy cows, from 'spring grazing' type, back to autm calving holstien, giving a lot higher yield, and half the number, so the quality of fodder required has changed.
From all the analysis done, its definitely different, and feeds well, going forward, quality fodder is essential, and we feel, w/wold with, or without vetch, is easier on several fronts, and perhaps more reliable. But h/rye is a great bulk crop, and on the right soil, can give huge quantities of yield, when used with maize - as it was designed to do, and it is certainly not written off here, just trying something different. Both maize, and rye, can utilise a huge amount of slurry, so you are looking at a high bulk, 30 t/ac, with little, or no fert. Rye is a great scavenger of N, so it ticks another box.

The grain to stem ratio is remarkably small in a cheesy dough wholecrop h/rye, no question. My (poor) understanding though is that the digester bugs don’t mind this, there must be something different about h/rye stem when compared to say wheat or barley stems, possibly that there’s more starch in the actual stem itself? Analysis certainly reveals more starch in a h/rye wholecrop sample that you would expect from it, looking at the sample itself and the lack of grain therein. Also, digester bugs get a lot longer to work on the feed than a cow which is pushing it through in a matter of hours rather than days or weeks.

Soz, but I’m still not clear on whether you’re saying you can harvest the h/rye at cheesy dough stage and then plant maize or not in your neck of the woods? You are likely meaning take the h/rye as a leafy crop (more like grass silage) ie early but I’d like to make sure that’s what you’re saying. Soz.

 

[In the pit]

The grain to stem ratio is remarkably small in a cheesy dough wholecrop h/rye, no question. My (poor) understanding though is that the digester bugs don’t mind this, there must be something different about h/rye stem when compared to say wheat or barley stems, possibly that there’s more starch in the actual stem itself? Analysis certainly reveals more starch in a h/rye wholecrop sample that you would expect from it, looking at the sample itself and the lack of grain therein. Also, digester bugs get a lot longer to work on the feed than a cow which is pushing it through in a matter of hours rather than days or weeks.

Soz, but I’m still not clear on whether you’re saying you can harvest the h/rye at cheesy dough stage and then plant maize or not in your neck of the woods? You are likely meaning take the h/rye as a leafy crop (more like grass silage) ie early but I’d like to make sure that’s what you’re saying. Soz.

I think he’s cutting as a leafy crop ,no way it can have an ear on it in april

 

[som farmer]

The grain to stem ratio is remarkably small in a cheesy dough wholecrop h/rye, no question. My (poor) understanding though is that the digester bugs don’t mind this, there must be something different about h/rye stem when compared to say wheat or barley stems, possibly that there’s more starch in the actual stem itself? Analysis certainly reveals more starch in a h/rye wholecrop sample that you would expect from it, looking at the sample itself and the lack of grain therein. Also, digester bugs get a lot longer to work on the feed than a cow which is pushing it through in a matter of hours rather than days or weeks.

Soz, but I’m still not clear on whether you’re saying you can harvest the h/rye at cheesy dough stage and then plant maize or not in your neck of the woods? You are likely meaning take the h/rye as a leafy crop (more like grass silage) ie early but I’d like to make sure that’s what you’re saying. Soz.

more grass silage stage, 24th may.
and thats the problem, you need to get the rye off, to get the maize in, and you need the maize off, early enough for the rye to go in, although, we were told, rye is very winter hardy, it needs to go in in sept. So you are 'pushing' ideal stage, on both, which is why we are trying w/wolds instead. Perhaps, maize, w wheat, rye, would be a better way to max advantage.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[oakfarm]

i have been reading all these comments so i am thinking of growing this to feed our beef cattle though winter to finish
we are looking at planting hybrid rye this year with the aim to cut in may? to clamp
what are the achievable LWG using it as the only feed? ( 1.2 kg daily live weight gain possible ) the starches are there from reading the forum protein low ( 11% cp) but don't see that as to much of an issue
in terms of yield it seems to vary but as an average is 20 ton achievable after having a couple cheeky grazing with sheep dec /jan
would you grow the hybrid over the forage rye

 

[som farmer]

i have been reading all these comments so i am thinking of growing this to feed our beef cattle though winter to finish
we are looking at planting hybrid rye this year with the aim to cut in may? to clamp
what are the achievable LWG using it as the only feed? ( 1.2 kg daily live weight gain possible ) the starches are there from reading the forum protein low ( 11% cp) but don't see that as to much of an issue
in terms of yield it seems to vary but as an average is 20 ton achievable after having a couple cheeky grazing with sheep dec /jan
would you grow the hybrid over the forage rye

definitely hybrid, is very different, and has been bred for digestors.
20 t/ac would be a max, only achieved here x1, first year we grew it, with maize after it, we achieved 18t/ac, so 30+t/ac is achievable.
We have left 1 piece for w/crop, starch was 24%, but the straw to ear, ratio is big, we were not convinced on the 24%, but, big yield, and a good crop of forage rape, in behind it.
Totally peed off, not getting an analysis back, and don't understand why they can't, but not a lot more we can do.
What l can say, is our rye/vetch this yr, came off at 15 t/a, that's by the contractors figures. It has analysed, at rubbish feed value, results we have had, but our bulling hfrs grew on it, with nothing else, as they were getting to fat, with maize and blend included, and our dairy cows, av 9,000l, love it, at 30% of the TMR, if it was crap, they wouldn't be giving the milk. So, cheap crop to grow, huge bulk, suitable for double cropping, Make your own mind up.

We were going to cut forage rye, for silage, for suckler cows, bulk yield of low feed value crop. But we changed our minds, sold the sucklers, and went back to milking, so when hybrid rye came along, we tried it, and liked it.

 

[oakfarm]

thank you i stuck just what to do im in two minds aiming for fully low inputs system utilizing our manure only on forage ground
option 1 grow the rye harvest may but follow with what ?
maize isnt an option for us is it possible to get a late cheeky whole crop ( peas wheat vetch ) and cut September ?