Foundation Degree or Degree Level Agricultural Apprenticeships

[The Fenster]

Hi All,

Currently studying last year of a levels and looking at options after I leave school . University is becoming less appealing by the day , at the moment I’m building sheep numbers ( and hence building equity - although it’s minimal ) on rented ground and uni would mean selling up and standing still for 3 years while getting a debt of £50000 and a piece of paper that doesn’t appear to be necessary for success in farming . That said , I don’t want to completely abandon education. I have had the offer of an potential apprenticeship in Wales with a fantastic farmer where I could continue to expand my little business , I was therefore wondering if anyone had any experience or knew of providers of high level apprenticeships ??, in my mind it would be ideal to work on a farm , gain hands on experience ( while expanding my own stock numbers in the evenings etc ) and get a Degree at the same time . Any help or advice appreciated .
Many thanks ,
Fenster

 

[Brisel]

@unlacedgecko

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Hi All,

Currently studying last year of a levels and looking at options after I leave school . University is becoming less appealing by the day , at the moment I’m building sheep numbers ( and hence building equity - although it’s minimal ) on rented ground and uni would mean selling up and standing still for 3 years while getting a debt of £50000 and a piece of paper that doesn’t appear to be necessary for success in farming . That said , I don’t want to completely abandon education. I have had the offer of an potential apprenticeship in Wales with a fantastic farmer where I could continue to expand my little business , I was therefore wondering if anyone had any experience or knew of providers of high level apprenticeships ??, in my mind it would be ideal to work on a farm , gain hands on experience ( while expanding my own stock numbers in the evenings etc ) and get a Degree at the same time . Any help or advice appreciated .
Many thanks ,
Fenster

Interesting - very similar situation to my daughter, though her own stock levels are currently minimal. She too is uninspired to go to uni.
Cannington college in Somerset do a foundation degree - 2 days a week studying, rest of week on farm. It can be subsequently topped up to a full degree.
Or an apprenticeship aimed at that age group (level 4?) in which you study alongside the foundation degree students but I think is only 1 day a week. It can be topped up to a foundation degree.

I'd be interested to know if others do this?

Struggling to get my daughter to give it serious thought!

 

[Poorbuthappy]

How did you come by the offer from Wales btw?
Sounds a great opportunity.

 

[unlacedgecko]

@unlacedgecko

Thanks for the tag.

I’ve no experience of apprenticeships personally. I did employ someone on an apprenticeship who went to college 2 days a month once. It wasn’t a good fit and she left the business after 10 weeks.

I attended RAU for the Ag degree. I left after 1 year due to the birth of my son. In hindsight the whole thing was a waste of time and money tbh. A degree is useful if you need a visa to emigrate. Otherwise your outline plan is infinitely superior.

 

[organicguy]

From what you say you will not find an apprenticeship at a local college challenging enough or the quality of the course high enough. I employ 2 boys, one on 1 day a week apprenticeship. Spends most of his time trying to pass maths and english and done very little useful Ag stuff. The other was full time because he was too young to leave school and has left after 1 year because he got bored. Intellectual capacity comes into the equation.
I did a degree a few years ago,(35) it is the management skills, paper work type stuff I recognise using the most but it maybe the farming stuff is more deeply ingrained.

 

[The Fenster]

How did you come by the offer from Wales btw?
Sounds a great opportunity.

It’s quite a long story how I got the Wales offer , I did a dissertation at school for an additional qualification in which I looked at share farming in the UK, how the New Zealand model can be used in the UK and routes for new entrant farmers ( contracting , tenant farming , etc. ) In doing this report I came across a farmer from Wales who started with 20 heifer calves ( no qualifications , no farming background , no family money ) and is now share milking over 400 cows and has just bought his own farm . He featured as a case study in my report and I also went to stay on his farm , he talked about the potential for an apprenticeship with him which would be fantastic .

The report brought me in touch with a number of farmers using the pasture to profit route and this is what I’m really interested in doing myself . Spring block calving cows and milking them on a grass based system ( the New Zealand system ) appears to allow for wealth creation and expansion , there are opportunities for share milking and It is possible for a new entrant to gain farm ownership in the end .

It seems that when people are looking for potential partners in share farming agreements experience , equity and character ( willingness to work etc ) are much more highly sought than qualifications . However my thoughts are that if things go wrong with my own business and I fail to raise enough equity to enter a share farming agreement I would like to have a qualification to fall back on to allow me to go into farm management or consultancy as a plan B of C.

The challenge is now finding an apprenticeship provider that suits me. I have got some time though , my current plan is to have a gap year before going onto the next level of education , Hopefully spend half the year doing something a bit different and half the year in New Zealand looking more at grass based dairy farming and how they do things out there . I’ve got some contacts out there from my farming trip to NZ this year.
Thanks for all your help once again and thanks in advance. All advice welcome , kind regards , The Fenster

 

[organicguy]

It’s quite a long story how I got the Wales offer , I did a dissertation at school for an additional qualification in which I looked at share farming in the UK, how the New Zealand model can be used in the UK and routes for new entrant farmers ( contracting , tenant farming , etc. ) In doing this report I came across a farmer from Wales who started with 20 heifer calves ( no qualifications , no farming background , no family money ) and is now share milking over 400 cows and has just bought his own farm . He featured as a case study in my report and I also went to stay on his farm , he talked about the potential for an apprenticeship with him which would be fantastic .

The report brought me in touch with a number of farmers using the pasture to profit route and this is what I’m really interested in doing myself . Spring block calving cows and milking them on a grass based system ( the New Zealand system ) appears to allow for wealth creation and expansion , there are opportunities for share milking and It is possible for a new entrant to gain farm ownership in the end .

It seems that when people are looking for potential partners in share farming agreements experience , equity and character ( willingness to work etc ) are much more highly sought than qualifications . However my thoughts are that if things go wrong with my own business and I fail to raise enough equity to enter a share farming agreement I would like to have a qualification to fall back on to allow me to go into farm management or consultancy as a plan B of C.

The challenge is now finding an apprenticeship provider that suits me. I have got some time though , my current plan is to have a gap year before going onto the next level of education , Hopefully spend half the year doing something a bit different and half the year in New Zealand looking more at grass based dairy farming and how they do things out there . I’ve got some contacts out there from my farming trip to NZ this year.
Thanks for all your help once again and thanks in advance. All advice welcome , kind regards , The Fenster

Pity you are not 7 years older, I,m looking for someone young and intelligent to take on my business!

 

[The Fenster]

Pity you are not 7 years older, I,m looking for someone young and intelligent to take on my business!

Id walk out of school now if the chance came up to take on a farm business ! Out of interest what do you do ?

As you said on your previous reply i also think I’d find lower level college courses boring, I’ve known I’ve wanted to go into farming for years but decided to do A levels as the local Ag college is awful , my boss told me right from the start I’d be bored as hell there. Hopefully there will be something higher level out there although it’s seeming hard to find something high level that’s an apprenticeship . I’m currently studying biology , chemistry and maths with about four years of practical farm experience ( beef , sheep , dairy , arable , flowers .)

 

[unlacedgecko]

It’s quite a long story how I got the Wales offer , I did a dissertation at school for an additional qualification in which I looked at share farming in the UK, how the New Zealand model can be used in the UK and routes for new entrant farmers ( contracting , tenant farming , etc. ) In doing this report I came across a farmer from Wales who started with 20 heifer calves ( no qualifications , no farming background , no family money ) and is now share milking over 400 cows and has just bought his own farm . He featured as a case study in my report and I also went to stay on his farm , he talked about the potential for an apprenticeship with him which would be fantastic .

The report brought me in touch with a number of farmers using the pasture to profit route and this is what I’m really interested in doing myself . Spring block calving cows and milking them on a grass based system ( the New Zealand system ) appears to allow for wealth creation and expansion , there are opportunities for share milking and It is possible for a new entrant to gain farm ownership in the end .

It seems that when people are looking for potential partners in share farming agreements experience , equity and character ( willingness to work etc ) are much more highly sought than qualifications . However my thoughts are that if things go wrong with my own business and I fail to raise enough equity to enter a share farming agreement I would like to have a qualification to fall back on to allow me to go into farm management or consultancy as a plan B of C.

The challenge is now finding an apprenticeship provider that suits me. I have got some time though , my current plan is to have a gap year before going onto the next level of education , Hopefully spend half the year doing something a bit different and half the year in New Zealand looking more at grass based dairy farming and how they do things out there . I’ve got some contacts out there from my farming trip to NZ this year.
Thanks for all your help once again and thanks in advance. All advice welcome , kind regards , The Fenster

Don't bother coming back from NZ.

 

[Hampton]

Id walk out of school now if the chance came up to take on a farm business ! Out of interest what do you do ?

As you said on your previous reply i also think I’d find lower level college courses boring, I’ve known I’ve wanted to go into farming for years but decided to do A levels as the local Ag college is awful , my boss told me right from the start I’d be bored as hell there. Hopefully there will be something higher level out there although it’s seeming hard to find something high level that’s an apprenticeship . I’m currently studying biology , chemistry and maths with about four years of practical farm experience ( beef , sheep , dairy , arable , flowers .)

If you planned to do maths chemistry and biology A Levels, why didn’t you do them at school rather than an At college?

 

[The Fenster]

Don't bother coming back from NZ.

It is tempting to not return from New Zealand, bloody amazing out there and wild as hell, but I do like the UK too and there's a bit of a thrill in trying to bring something relatively new to the UK.

If you planned to do maths chemistry and biology A Levels, why didn’t you do them at school rather than an At college?

And sorry I wasn't too clear, I am doing A levels at school at the moment, never went to college.

 

[Boysground]

@The Fenster TBH my advice would be to continue your education and have some fun along the way. You are a long time working.

I know its not quite the same position as you are in but as an employer I have interviewed too many ex students who have said that they gave up on college because they knew all about farming. I have given the occasional 1 of these a job as they looked promising and every time I have been let down. So these days i look for college betecs etc. I have 2 milkers here at the moment 1 doing a BETEC and the other is finishing a foundation degree and they both want to go on and complete a full degree.

You are doing tough A levels so with a good brain you should look at a foundation degree or even more. I would suggest that if you want to be building your own business or going share farming look for a course that includes the business side of Agriculture so that you learn how accounts work, how to create a business plan and how the inevitable legislation affects us etc etc. If you want to go share farming you will have a much better chance of finding a farm if you understand all of this.

Bg

 

[Poorbuthappy]

If you planned to do maths chemistry and biology A Levels, why didn’t you do them at school rather than an At college?

??? Don't quite follow this. In some areas schools don't do A levels and you can only do them by going to college.
But I see the OP has answered for his own situation.

 

[Formatted]

If you've got the smarts to go to University but don't want the ful-time commitment or debt, doing a part-time degree is an option. Forget doing a farming qualification, do a business degree.

 

[Agrispeed]

In my experience, the degree will be more business focused, whilst the apprenticeship will be more physical labour. One for management side of things, one designed more for farm workers. If you have practical experience and are looking at the management or business side of things, then a degree might suit you. I wouldn't necessarily go to the big 2 establishments either, I went to a lesser one and I think I learnt a lot more than I would've at Ciren or Harper (although I don't have the kudos on my CV). A lot of the degrees have short terms and only a few days a week so you could potentially still work on farm.

A fair proportion of the benefit of the degree for me was networking with farmers you visit and big names in the business etc

 

[Bloders]

Looking at it from a slightly different pint of view
Are you sure you want to do farming for the rest of ALL of your life?
I appreciate this is a blunt question. But one i was faced with whenlooking to go to university.
I was (wisey) advised not to specialise until i had a good base education behind me. Although my situation was very different, it also had similarities. I wanted to do Ag Engineering, but ended up doing Mechanical Engineering.
You are doing good A levels. Dont you fancy doing something like (if your smart) Vet, or agronomist. Both of these knit nicely into being a farmer?

 

[The Fenster]

Thank you for your kind replies , indeed a degree would push me further and hence why I am still considering it , that said it still doesn’t feel appealing - getting in debt and standing still for 3 years !

In answer to Bloders I am at the moment very sure that I want to go into actually farming on my own account , I’ve done work experience with agronomists and cattle nutritionists and generally find the work interesting but not something I could see myself doing every day . My a levels aren’t good enough for a vet but I’d hope are good enough to go back to uni at a later date should I want a career change .

I am very interested in why a couple of people have encouraged a business qualification as opposed to an agricultural qualification ? Would the agricultural qualification not be more relevant to the business i want to run?

 

[organicguy]

I would not suggest a purely business qualification but however good you are at agronomy and animal husbandry if you cannot manage cash flows and accounts and staff, paperwork etc your business is unlikely to succeed. On the other side if you find you have a weakness you can get advice.

 

[toquark]

As others have suggested, personally I'd train in something which knits into practical farming well (Vet, Agronomy, Nutrition, Forestry etc.). This allows you to have a good base from which to build your Ag empire. Crucially, it will provide early access to reasonably well paid jobs which can be used as a cushion to keep bills/rent/mortgage paid whilst you grow your ag enterprise. Also, its always there if circumstances change or you decide practical farming isn't for you.

My wife and I have done this and it's worked so far, however we're in Scotland and didn't leave with a £50k debt from uni. Had we been south of the border, very different decisions may have been made. You seem like an intelligent chap and your original idea doesn't sound half bad, I wish you all the best.