Going without Red tractor Farm Assurance

[William Mellor]

Ive no issue with the physical stuff around the yard. It makes you go and fix the broken bar on the gate that you keep putting off and gets them jobs done. Its the never ending paperwork and new rules that appear every inspection. When you already have the information recorded but the inspector wants it written into his specific book or have slightly different table headings, its just petty and job justification. Last inspector here was spot on, but in the medicine record book where a batch of cows were recorded as dry cow therapy, he wanted me to write DCT in every box rather than simply at the top of the table. Pedantic, and he knew it.

I agree it does make you get jobs done you’ve been putting off BUT I can do with them sending new rule and more paperwork every year. My last inspection in January 2017 was by a very nice inspector and flew thro the paper work in less than half an hour with about an hour walking round looking at building/cows/ feed storage. But hearing that this one coming this time around is strict and does everything by the book might wind me up beyond a point and to add he was addiment about coming about an hour before milking in the afternoon it’s even more stressful.
I can deal with fixing things round the yard but more paper work and more rules coming thro, I’m told i can’t even put down on the rat bait part I can’t put the fact I’ve got cats down any more even tho I’ve not brought any rat poison for over 2 years ridiculous! Then having to do a course to administer medicines, which I haven’t done and who’s paying for that? Then there’s my time doing all these things and the vets time and cost of the herd health plan.
I’m not RT FA for Beef and Sheep and I’ve hardly noticed a difference since they separated the Beef and Sheep scheme from the Dairy scheme. Cull cows go straight into to local slaughter house which doesn’t give bonus’s or penalties for FA, bull and beef calves have been sold straight of farm to calf rears who I may add aren’t RT FA and can easy sell them for as much I as I use to before they separated the schemes and when I use to sell in the local markets.
I just can see RT FA getting really out of hand with rules and guidelines and can only see it getting worse and when the general public doesn’t really know what the logo means on food packaging it’s prehaps going to become a waste of time as I see it.

 

[jimmer]

Will , if you have no rats and no evidence of them , then your measures work , they cant dispute it

They have to appreciate that every farm is different and that what works for one doesnt always for another

 

[tomg]

I used to do some farm assurance work but was office based and reviewed the audits and chased up any non compliance. It would have to be a fairly serious problem before you got suspended from the scheme. I used to sit next to the chap who had the job of informing the farmer that they had been suspended, he was a farmer himself, they would be given every chance to sort things out before being suspended from the scheme.
I never did any dairy work as I've no experience in it but sat next to the people who reviewed the audits, the dairy sector was definitely the worst offenders for non compliances.
I packed the job up years ago as I don't agree with a lot of the paper work, I got sick of having to ring farmers up for silly things like an arable farmer having not recorded when he last cleaned his trailers out etc.
However I hoped RT has put some farmers out of business, some of the welfare cases that came up were disgusting, cows not being milked between Friday night and Monday morning because they couldn't be bothered, pens not mucked out for years and animals up to bellys in muck and you wouldn't believe some of the buildings used to house animals.
I agree the paper work side has got out of hand and hence why I left but if it has meant some people keeping animals who really shouldn't have been I think it is a positive.
As long as there is no major points raised at the audit you'll have 28 days to sort things out, if it's basic paper work stuff most things can be sorted at the audit.

 

[Crusty]

I know where your coming from will and we get abit fed up with fa/Rd too. We've never had any issues but the endless regulations takes more and more of the pleasure out of farming for the farmer in my opinion (especially family farms)
That said at the end of the day we are producing a raw food product and I think regulation will only get tighter, in terms of traceability/public perception it can only be a good thing and help to fight our corner against vegans etc

The thing that really annoys me is there are some real cowschwitz type places out there that shouldn't be still producing milk yet still are, makes abit of a mockery of it if you ask me

 

[multi power]

Never had a problem milking OAD with red tractor. Feed calves OAD fine too.

I'm virtually certain red tractor states they have to be milked at least twice a day
I will double check

 

[multi power]

I agree it does make you get jobs done you’ve been putting off BUT I can do with them sending new rule and more paperwork every year. My last inspection in January 2017 was by a very nice inspector and flew thro the paper work in less than half an hour with about an hour walking round looking at building/cows/ feed storage. But hearing that this one coming this time around is strict and does everything by the book might wind me up beyond a point and to add he was addiment about coming about an hour before milking in the afternoon it’s even more stressful.
I can deal with fixing things round the yard but more paper work and more rules coming thro, I’m told i can’t even put down on the rat bait part I can’t put the fact I’ve got cats down any more even tho I’ve not brought any rat poison for over 2 years ridiculous! Then having to do a course to administer medicines, which I haven’t done and who’s paying for that? Then there’s my time doing all these things and the vets time and cost of the herd health plan.
I’m not RT FA for Beef and Sheep and I’ve hardly noticed a difference since they separated the Beef and Sheep scheme from the Dairy scheme. Cull cows go straight into to local slaughter house which doesn’t give bonus’s or penalties for FA, bull and beef calves have been sold straight of farm to calf rears who I may add aren’t RT FA and can easy sell them for as much I as I use to before they separated the schemes and when I use to sell in the local markets.
I just can see RT FA getting really out of hand with rules and guidelines and can only see it getting worse and when the general public doesn’t really know what the logo means on food packaging it’s prehaps going to become a waste of time as I see it.

An hour before milking is a perfect time for the inspection, he won't have too much time to go looking at trivial things

 

[applejack]

We have circa 150 milk & cream customer. Shops, ice cream makers, resteraunts, coffee shops, bakeries.etc etc
Not once in 13 years have any of them asked about FA
So there`s your answer Mr Mellor, Get yourself a pastueriser, seperater & a van [/QUO

This is the crux of it IMO, @upnortheast obviously gets his FSA inspections, standards maintained and consistent requirements means no problem.
The trouble with FA is that should inevitably becomes must and then at the next review along come another raft of requirements.
Of course the supermarkets, processers and nfu always trot out the garbage about it being 'consumer driven', well sometimes while the oh is wandering around shopping I'll spend ten minutes or so watching the milk aisle. The vast majority of people just pick up their milk without a second thought, the only thing that concerns them is whether it's blue, green or red top. i reckon if you substituted British milk with stuff from India or somewhere most of them wouldn't notice and a fair few wouldn't care either.

 

[Agrispeed]

I'm virtually certain red tractor states they have to be milked at least twice a day
I will double check

I had a quick look and p.10 suggests at least daily, but it might well say TAD elsewhere.

I'm quite happy to argue that with my inspector though... they didn't even ask last year

 

[Tarw Coch]

I had a quick look and p.10 suggests at least daily, but it might well say TAD elsewhere.

I'm quite happy to argue that with my inspector though... they didn't even ask last year

At least daily suggests once a day or more, IIRC
Twice a day is a muller requirement, quite probably other buyers too.

 

[multi power]

I had a quick look and p.10 suggests at least daily, but it might well say TAD elsewhere.

I'm quite happy to argue that with my inspector though... they didn't even ask last year

I can't find the checklist now , but if they don't ask no problems

 

[som farmer]

Will , if you have no rats and no evidence of them , then your measures work , they cant dispute it

They have to appreciate that every farm is different and that what works for one doesnt always for another

ours even queried our Rentokil contract

 

[sidjon]

I can't find the checklist now , but if they don't ask no problems

OAD is fine on red tractor, was OAD last time they were here and talked about it for half hour.