GPS - what level of accuracy needed...?

[Dan Powell]

I'm on the verge of changing my main tractor and was wandering if it's worth sticking auto-steering on it. My reasoning is that I could barely see last year's tramlines once the crop had emerged and in the case of drilling into a cover crop (which worked well this time) couldn't see them at all, meaning that I had to rely on counting the drill passes to spray off after drilling - not entirely successful and also time-consuming and stressful.

The upshot of having guidance would be being able to drill in lands, thereby reducing headland compaction, and would also add a touch of professionalism to the look of the fields - a large number of which are visible from a busy road. It would also help when spreading compost etc.

Lightbars are all well and good, but when spraying undulating fields with telegraph poles and trees etc I find I have enough to think about without staring at a little screen. It's only a matter of time before I clobber something.

Is it worth it? I think I can spec a tractor with Rangepoint RTX for about £7-8K. Centrepoint would be more and mobile RTK more again and probably unreliable due to dodgy phone signals locally. This is on 400 acres.

 

[Andrew K]

I would go for it Dan, there will be a small saving in inputs too, particularly with sprays and liquid fert, seed corn etc.
By far the biggest benefit is increased output, less wheelings/ fuel and a less tired operator who becomes happier with his work!

I was lucky to get a 40% FFIS grant on my Trimble FM750 and Ez Pilot steering wheel kit

 

[Dan Powell]

I would go for it Dan, there will be a small saving in inputs too, particularly with sprays and liquid fert, seed corn etc.
By far the biggest benefit is increased output, less wheelings/ fuel and a less tired operator who becomes happier with his work!

I was lucky to get a 40% FFIS grant on my Trimble FM750 and Ez Pilot steering wheel kit

What level of accuracy do you have, Andrew, and is it good enough for drilling?

 

[Andrew K]

We normally use HP2 for drilling period , and run on EGNOS for other times.Will be giving Range point a try this spring as it has more satellite availability, and is free for the coming season.
Egnos is not really consistent enough for drilling in my view.

 

[Steevo]

You'll never regret spending the money on it. I struggle to justify it in monetary terms, but its a much better quality of life on the tractor when driving. Also gives dead straight rows, which in itself gives great satisfaction. When drilling it means I can get more done in a day - I don't mind going on later as feel less tired, and I can drill when its darker (even pitch black) without a worry. Given the conditions last autumn the extra acres in a day was vital and meant we got the wheat all drilled up just before the rain whereas I feel otherwise we would not have.
One field the drill kept blocking so kept having to lift, loop the loop to clear the drill and pull back in again. I was dreading it coming up as thought it would look a mess...but you can't even see a difference. Without autosteer I would have given up.

 

[Hartwig]

We normally use HP2 for drilling period , and run on EGNOS for other times.Will be giving Range point a try this spring as it has more satellite availability, and is free for the coming season.
Egnos is not really consistent enough for drilling in my view.

What is HP2, please ?? Can`t find any info on the net, but JD has a SF2-signal for the Autotrac-system, is it that in your country ??
Can`t find any info that RangePoint is a free signal, only for the first year as far as I found out !?

Accuracy: Egnos <100cm, JD SF1 <30cm, RangePoint <15cm, JD SF2 <10cm, RTK 2cm - would the SF2 be accurate enough to do drilling with a 3m drill ??

Does anybody know if the systems are combinable, I mean could a motor-steeringwheel from Trimble or Leica be connected to a JD Greenstar system for example ?? Certainly not plug&play, but for an electrician with changing plugs maybe ??

 

[Green oak]

 

[Green oak]

Picked up at Lamma.

 

[Persa]

What is HP2, please ?? Can`t find any info on the net, but JD has a SF2-signal for the Autotrac-system, is it that in your country ??
Can`t find any info that RangePoint is a free signal, only for the first year as far as I found out !?

Accuracy: Egnos <100cm, JD SF1 <30cm, RangePoint <15cm, JD SF2 <10cm, RTK 2cm - would the SF2 be accurate enough to do drilling with a 3m drill ??

Does anybody know if the systems are combinable, I mean could a motor-steeringwheel from Trimble or Leica be connected to a JD Greenstar system for example ?? Certainly not plug&play, but for an electrician with changing plugs maybe ??

Take a look at newagtalk in US. http://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=6
There you can find alot of pros and cons for the different systems and what you can and can't connect.

 

[Simon Chiles]

What is HP2, please ?? Can`t find any info on the net, but JD has a SF2-signal for the Autotrac-system, is it that in your country ??
Can`t find any info that RangePoint is a free signal, only for the first year as far as I found out !?

Accuracy: Egnos <100cm, JD SF1 <30cm, RangePoint <15cm, JD SF2 <10cm, RTK 2cm - would the SF2 be accurate enough to do drilling with a 3m drill ??

Does anybody know if the systems are combinable, I mean could a motor-steeringwheel from Trimble or Leica be connected to a JD Greenstar system for example ?? Certainly not plug&play, but for an electrician with changing plugs maybe ??

I drill using autotrac and a SF1 signal, I also have a 3000 receiver. It wouldn't be good enough on the old Gen 2 or ITC receivers. It's not perfect but it's good enough, certainly much better than I could ever be with markers and a low disturbance drill in often in trashy conditions. Most of the error stems from the tail wagging the dog, ie the drill trying to follow the line of least resistance and the tractor having to correct for it, a higher level of accuracy wouldn't make much difference in this situation.

 

[Andrew K]

I agree Simon,
You can spend alot on the dogs doo daa system , but ultimately the return on capital is more important.
When we had SF2 on a short licence that ran out with just a few days left to go,i never noticed much difference on SF1.
That was probably because we always had a JD engineer out to set the system up properly for the sake of an hours labour at the start of the season.

 

[Steevo]

Another reason why Rangepoint from Trimble is very handy. Saves me about £500 a year in signal costs....that soon adds up when comparing GPS systems you might keep for 10 years or so.

 

[An Gof]

I drill using autotrac and a SF1 signal, I also have a 3000 receiver. It wouldn't be good enough on the old Gen 2 or ITC receivers. It's not perfect but it's good enough, certainly much better than I could ever be with markers and a low disturbance drill in often in trashy conditions. Most of the error stems from the tail wagging the dog, ie the drill trying to follow the line of least resistance and the tractor having to correct for it, a higher level of accuracy wouldn't make much difference in this situation.

I'm also drilling with SF1 and a 3000 receiver on autotrac with a 3m Vaddy.
Happy with results do far. On sloping ground it is MUCH better at allowing for the fall of the drill down the slope than I would be with markers.

 

[Slick]

I would go for it Dan, there will be a small saving in inputs too, particularly with sprays and liquid fert, seed corn etc.
By far the biggest benefit is increased output, less wheelings/ fuel and a less tired operator who becomes happier with his work!

I was lucky to get a 40% FFIS grant on my Trimble FM750 and Ez Pilot steering wheel kit

Round 3 of FFIS grants has just been rolled out, up to 40% available again.

 

[Northdowns Martin]

Receivers appear to be very important. I buy SF2 signal for my iTC receiver but kept losing the signal while drilling under trees, a neighbour loaned me his 3000 receiver on SF1 which proved to be far superior as it retained its signal and when lost recovered it quicker.

 

[Dan Powell]

Round 3 of FFIS grants has just been rolled out, up to 40% available again.

I know! Good opportunity.

 

[Dan Powell]

Thanks to all for replies. One more question for the DDers out there: Is SF1 / Rangepoint accurate enough to find the previous year's tramlines? Let's assume you can find your old AB line from the previous year easily but all the other tramlines are lost two foot deep under a mat of cover crop.

 

[Badshot]

You'll have satellite drift so will need a physical marker in the field to know where you should be. There's a few tried that round here but they all are on RTK now.

 

[db9go]

Pick a point in any field and then log in and mark it then when you go into that field and you know it will be right it is no problem

 

[Andrew K]

Thanks to all for replies. One more question for the DDers out there: Is SF1 / Rangepoint accurate enough to find the previous year's tramlines? Let's assume you can find your old AB line from the previous year easily but all the other tramlines are lost two foot deep under a mat of cover crop.

I wouldnt say so, i wouldnt rely on SF2 or HP2 either.IMO you need RTK for that sort of accuracy.