Grain pads - alternatives to concrete?

[Flatland guy]

Well I have read the whole thread, surely this issue would have been dealt with at the outset and figure into your costs on the contract farms? if they have small low barns etc you would have viewed them and quoted accordingly.

 

[ajd132]

Well I have read the whole thread, surely this issue would have been dealt with at the outset and figure into your costs on the contract farms? if they have small low barns etc you would have viewed them and quoted accordingly.

The barns are useable. Just getting old, like on many uk farms. If investing in central storage you aren’t going to invest in top notch on farm storage aswell, hence the idea of pads. The contract farms have the best storage in the UK, it’s just not on the farm.
If we were to be storing grain long term on these farms then of course I would expect proper grain storage to be invested in, if on farm storage was the route they wanted to go.

 

[Pilatus]

Or a tractor mounted snow blower?

Mentioning that reminds that I think the on floor grain auger I mentioned in post#205,had a sort auger across the full width which was very similar to the type of auger used on wide snow blowers, (a type of hollow auger about a foot in diameter or bigger) , which doesn’t make sense until you’ve seen one.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

The barns are useable. Just getting old, like on many uk farms. If investing in central storage you aren’t going to invest in top notch on farm storage aswell, hence the idea of pads. The contract farms have the best storage in the UK, it’s just not on the farm.
If we were to be storing grain long term on these farms then of course I would expect proper grain storage to be invested in, if on farm storage was the route they wanted to go.

Is central storage plus a concrete pad going to end up dearer that a new in farm store?

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Mentioning that reminds that I think the on floor grain auger I mentioned in post#205,had a sort auger across the full width which was very similar to the type of auger used on wide snow blowers, (a type of hollow auger about a foot in diameter or bigger) , which doesn’t make sense until you’ve seen one.

Yes, i've used those Swift Augers as a student. Pretty useful with above ground laterals.

 

[Pilatus]

Yes, i've used those Swift Augers as a student. Pretty useful with above ground laterals.

I guess that’s what they were designed for,
strange how certain things stick in our minds

 

[ajd132]

Is central storage plus a concrete pad going to end up dearer that a new in farm store?

Depends on size of farm etc and how big an area a pad could serve. I could get one pad to service 3 farms. Or one pad to service 3000 acres.
Comparing on farm storage to central storage in terms of building cost is quite difficult because central stores generally have facilities (colour sorters/blending capability etc) that is just not cost effective apart from for the very biggest farms. You are not comparing like for like.

 

[Pilatus]

I guess the grain pad is only part of the problem, it’s making it accessible for 40 ton artics in a very wet harvest

 

[farenheit]

Depends on size of farm etc and how big an area a pad could serve. I could get one pad to service 3 farms. Or one pad to service 3000 acres.
Comparing on farm storage to central storage in terms of building cost is quite difficult because central stores generally have facilities (colour sorters/blending capability etc) that is just not cost effective apart from for the very biggest farms. You are not comparing like for like.

It raises the interesting point about investing in sheds anyway - it was clearly a very good investment decision to have built the old sheds, since they are making more money per year diversified than they probably cost to build. If you are going to spend money on something now, then why not new sheds - they will serve the purpose better than any other option listed above, plus be a good long term investment when they too can be used for commercial purposes down the line. It just comes down to persuading the land owners that its a good investment.

 

[ajd132]

It raises the interesting point about investing in sheds anyway - it was clearly a very good investment decision to have built the old sheds, since they are making more money per year diversified than they probably cost to build. If you are going to spend money on something now, then why not new sheds - they will serve the purpose better than any other option listed above, plus be a good long term investment when they too can be used for commercial purposes down the line. It just comes down to persuading the land owners that its a good investment.

Totally agree. Use central store, keep building simple sheds, rent them out in a few years etc.
personally though I don’t want 9 seperate long term grain storage and drying facilities each with 2 or 3 crops in dotted around the area for each farm.
You then get moaning about cutting wet crops etc. with our system how it is now everyone just pays a percentage of the drying costs of the whole group of farms we manage regardless of whether they were cut wet or dry. Only fair way to do it IMO

 

[fudge]

This thread keeps on giving!!!! If there were a “cheap” alternative to concrete wouldn’t the whole world be using it? Concrete always looks expensive until you have laid it then it’s great. Mind you I am a rich farmer. In the OP’s case he just has to face facts if the land owner won’t provide somewhere to tip then he’ll have to charge the landowner for alternative arrangements, whether that’s clearing up after tipping on a stubble or transport to a central store. There is no clever short cut, once a grain trailer is full it has to be tipped, apart from the last load of course.

 

[Flatland guy]

Sorry I probably did not make myself clear enough, I understand the contract farms have invested in central storage and that the old barns are only used for tipping in prior to collection to going into central storage. However you have three contract farms all nearby each other and to improve your tipping and loading times rather than going in three separate yards want to go into one site for all three ideally. I understand your concerns however I just think that you are trying to get one landowner to invest so that you can use for the neighbouring two to use is a bit much, it may work with more charges going to that landowner but I just see it fraught with difficulty of why one has to spend for the other/ your benefit. Those land owners invested in central storage to stop any more expense on infastructure.

 

[ajd132]

Sorry I probably did not make myself clear enough, I understand the contract farms have invested in central storage and that the old barns are only used for tipping in prior to collection to going into central storage. However you have three contract farms all nearby each other and to improve your tipping and loading times rather than going in three separate yards want to go into one site for all three ideally. I understand your concerns however I just think that you are trying to get one landowner to invest so that you can use for the neighbouring two to use is a bit much, it may work with more charges going to that landowner but I just see it fraught with difficulty of why one has to spend for the other/ your benefit. Those land owners invested in central storage to stop any more expense on infastructure.

Which is partly why I was trying to find a very cheap way of doing it!

 

[ajd132]

This thread keeps on giving!!!! If there were a “cheap” alternative to concrete wouldn’t the whole world be using it? Concrete always looks expensive until you have laid it then it’s great. Mind you I am a rich farmer. In the OP’s case he just has to face facts if the land owner won’t provide somewhere to tip then he’ll have to charge the landowner for alternative arrangements, whether that’s clearing up after tipping on a stubble or transport to a central store. There is no clever short cut, once a grain trailer is full it has to be tipped, apart from the last load of course.

They do provide somewhere to tip. I am trying to help the landowners in a post bps era by providing them with a way to gain another income stream from their asset. Some may not even want to rent a barn out to be fair, but it would be nice to give them the option if its cost effective hence starting this thread in order to cover all bases.

I am Just exploring all options in order to extract maximum value for us and our cfa’s. (Which are all long term with very good working relationships, if they are happy and have more income stream then everything is rosy!)

 

[fudge]

They do provide somewhere to tip. I am trying to help the landowners in a post bps era by providing them with a way to gain another income stream from their asset. Some may not even want to rent a barn out to be fair, but it would be nice to give them the option if its cost effective hence starting this thread in order to cover all bases.

I am Just exploring all options in order to extract maximum value for us and our cfa’s. (Which are all long term with very good working relationships, if they are happy and have more income stream then everything is rosy!)

I appreciate what you are saying. In the medium term if you can come up with a viable alternative to concrete I think you could well be able to retire early.

 

[ajd132]

I appreciate what you are saying. In the medium term if you can come up with a viable alternative to concrete I think you could well be able to retire early.

Agree!

 

[kiwi pom]

You may have mentioned this earlier in the thread but does any of the grain go off the combine straight to store?
How much space would you need to tip the excess? Enough to dump a lot of the harvest, just enough to get through the day so the trucks can catch up overnight/early mornings or somewhere in between those two?

I really think its the landowners problem, they are "active farmers" after all. If they want to become landlords when it comes to buildings (funny how they don't want to do it for land) then its up to them to provide alternative arrangements for harvest.
Let them worry about it.

 

[ajd132]

You may have mentioned this earlier in the thread but does any of the grain go off the combine straight to store?
How much space would you need to tip the excess? Enough to dump a lot of the harvest, just enough to get through the day so the trucks can catch up overnight/early mornings or somewhere in between those two?

I really think its the landowners problem, they are "active farmers" after all. If they want to become landlords when it comes to buildings (funny how they don't want to do it for land) then its up to them to provide alternative arrangements for harvest.
Let them worry about it.

Of course, I wouldn’t be expected to pay for something especially if they are creating value elsewhere by finding alternative uses for an old dump shed.
Just trying to get an idea of whether it is a viable business case.

 

[Pigless]

Is that much different to a telescopic loading and using leaf blowers to blow the left over constantly back into the front of the heap?

Yes, there's no driving around on the ground or scraping up with a bucket. You only suck up clean grain

.

 

[Pilatus]

I appreciate what you are saying. In the medium term if you can come up with a viable alternative to concrete I think you could well be able to retire early.

How right you are, just shows that even in the 21st century there are still certain items that haven’t got a real alternative. I suppose in some situations recycled tarmac has been used , or tarmac using coarse aggregate. E.g certain lengths of a dual carriageway near us are tarmac and some concrete, no idea of cost differences.