Grass reseed cultivation options

[RJ1]

Hi
Just about to reseed two fields. In recent years we've ploughed, out in a root crop and then put in grass the following spring. But we want to do two straight to grass this autumn.

They are two very different fields and I'm just after some thoughts on options other than ploughing

1 The first has compaction after 3 inches and then straight into some heavy clay.

Thoughts are spraying, discing as don't want to raise the clay and then working a bit with power Harrow and then seeding and rolling.

2 second is nice soil, free draining and dry with shale below. I see no real need to plough as soil condition is good so not sure whether disc would also be an option here.

Contractor also offering rotovator instead of discs, which has worked fairly well on stony fields for us before.

Would appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks

 

[som farmer]

you have to get rid of the compaction at 3ins, sward lifter? or plough and sub soil?

 

[RJ1]

you have to get rid of the compaction at 3ins, sward lifter? or plough and sub soil?

Sorry, forgot to say that intention was to use a grassland subsoiler/swardlifter to alleviate compaction between spraying and cultivating.

 

[neilo]

Sorry, forgot to say that intention was to use a grassland subsoiler/swardlifter to alleviate compaction between spraying and cultivating.

If you have a method of sorting the compaction layer, why on earth would you want to plough anyway?
I’d either DD, or shallow cultivate and broadcast/drill.

Better if you could put it through a brassica break first, but if that’s not an option....

 

[kill]

Any one ever disc harrow straight in to old pasture and till grass seed?

 

[RJ1]

If you have a method of sorting the compaction layer, why on earth would you want to plough anyway?
I’d either DD, or shallow cultivate and broadcast/drill.

Better if you could put it through a brassica break first, but if that’s not an option....

The intention is to avoid ploughing. Subsoil to alleviate the compaction and then, as you say, a shallow cultivation for that field. I'm just after any suggestions as to what method has worked for people.

 

[neilo]

Any one ever disc harrow straight in to old pasture and till grass seed?

No reason why it wouldn’t work, but i’d Want to spray with full rate glyphosate before hand, then leave for 4-6 weeks, before spraying again with a low rate to kill seedlings.
As soon as you stir the top soil up you will get a carpet of weed seedlings coming up.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Any one ever disc harrow straight in to old pasture and till grass seed?

Yep it looked f**king terrible at the time, too.

It basically resembled a field of tedded out hay as I only aimed to stall the old sward and introduce some new species to the seedbank, the decision to cultivate at all was reached because
1. f**k Roundup!
2. I wanted to level out the great big holes and humps as it had never really been cultivated and levelled before - AFAIK it's now been worked twice since the beginning of time

Still got stubs of the daikon radish showing, but they will decompose in time

 

[milkloss]

Any one ever disc harrow straight in to old pasture and till grass seed?

Yes, also gone straight in with a power harrow.

On a field that needed liming with a good cover of Yorkshire fog we directdrilled it with an overseeding mix using an aitchinson drill. Some parts were a bit rough so we power harrowed with a mounted drill. Didn’t spray with glypho as it was a dry spring and didn’t want the dead grass to wick the moisture out, was hoping the ‘boot’ of the Dd would lift enough yorkie turf to slow it down. It did to a degree.

The ph section grew like stink, still some fog there but not much. The dd part germinated well but seemed to just sit there about 2-3 inches tall, loads of fog still there.

Next time for a quick and dirty it’d be power Harrow straight in every time, I don’t think discs would make much of a difference.

 

[som farmer]

used round-up, followed by sumo, power harrow, then drill, works well for us. but with price of grass seed, the actual seed bed has got to be right, what's the point of re-seeding if you're not going to do the job properly?

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

We have deep soil not many stones.
Tried all sorts over the years but grass to grass using roundup, plough, roll, power harrow, combi drill grass only, roll, then spray the weeds fairly early on and add clover later when weeds killed ....is the most reliable method here. Won’t be on other farms no doubt. Better still is a break with 6 row barley which was terrific this year. But I don’t want to be an arable farmer!!!
Work with agronomist who can add value. No doubt there may be better ways but this works reliably for us.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Dont go grass to grass, as Neil says whack brassicas in. Then in spring till gently and drill spring barley and whatever grass ley you choose.

 

[deleted user 837354]

Any one ever disc harrow straight in to old pasture and till grass seed?

Seen it done.

Normally it takes, the problem is the old weed grasses get in amongst it to fast.

 

[deleted user 837354]

used round-up, followed by sumo, power harrow, then drill, works well for us. but with price of grass seed, the actual seed bed has got to be right, what's the point of re-seeding if you're not going to do the job properly?

If you are going to use a sumo you may as well plough!

 

[som farmer]

If you are going to use a sumo you may as well plough!

why? we are finding you get a much more even finish, and you get a semi sub soil, as long as you have given the round-up time to work -3 weeks+ -. as you are not physically turning the soil over, you aren't bringing so many weed seeds up.
we have grown maize behind sumo this year, bit of a problem with grass, so extra spray, but the crop is fine.
as farmers, as we move towards the great planet warming doom, we will be expected to reduce fuel usage, take steps to reduce chemical/fert use, grow more 'vegie/vegan' food, and min til will be one way of achieving this, and, of course, reduce our carbon footprint !!

 

[deleted user 837354]

why? we are finding you get a much more even finish, and you get a semi sub soil, as long as you have given the round-up time to work -3 weeks+ -. as you are not physically turning the soil over, you aren't bringing so many weed seeds up.
we have grown maize behind sumo this year, bit of a problem with grass, so extra spray, but the crop is fine.
as farmers, as we move towards the great planet warming doom, we will be expected to reduce fuel usage, take steps to reduce chemical/fert use, grow more 'vegie/vegan' food, and min til will be one way of achieving this, and, of course, reduce our carbon footprint !!

A sumo moves that much dirt its the same as a plough. Seen maize established with a sumo many times works fine. Better to invert grass though as weed grass appears in it much faster otherwise.

 

[milkloss]

A sumo moves that much dirt its the same as a plough. Seen maize established with a sumo many times works fine. Better to invert grass though as weed grass appears in it much faster otherwise.

Is that from the seed bank or the grass that hasn’t had a complete kill?

 

[deleted user 837354]

Is that from the seed bank or the grass that hasn’t had a complete kill?

Could be both but mostly from the existing seed bank.

Leys established behind a cereal (assuming adequate weed control) or another fodder crop are normally a lot cleaner, a couple of goes with roundup normally sorts the nastier weed grasses, along with a lot of broadleaves, although broadleaves you can take out later and I wouldn't consider them a huge issue.

These days breaking the pest cycle is also a major consideration.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Hi
Just about to reseed two fields. In recent years we've ploughed, out in a root crop and then put in grass the following spring. But we want to do two straight to grass this autumn.

They are two very different fields and I'm just after some thoughts on options other than ploughing

1 The first has compaction after 3 inches and then straight into some heavy clay.

Thoughts are spraying, discing as don't want to raise the clay and then working a bit with power Harrow and then seeding and rolling.

2 second is nice soil, free draining and dry with shale below. I see no real need to plough as soil condition is good so not sure whether disc would also be an option here.

Contractor also offering rotovator instead of discs, which has worked fairly well on stony fields for us before.

Would appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks

How you getting on

 

[Pan mixer]

Discing doesn't leave the land level enough I think, you have to harrow a bit after that, harrows will fill up with the turf lumps and it will be worse.

I have had complete crop failure a couple of times doing grass straight after grass and won't do it unless I really have to.

Kale or something best or even a break of cereals if you can do it.

Best thing that I have found for levelling out after cultivating stubble is a rexius twin but I have limited options, power harrow not good, zig-zag harrows are good if you don't have any turf lumps at all.