Ground sheep sick - how long to rest . . .?

[Jaffa Cakes]

Got some ground here that i think has just had constant sheep for too long. How much rest do folk think it would need to make a real difference? Couple of cuts of silage? Full year grazed with cattle? Or ploughed and cropped for a year or two?

Thoughts welcomed!

 

[Anymulewilldo]

If it works into your business then 2 years of cropping would break the cycle perfectly? I think I’m right with that? @neilo I’m sure you’ve mentioned something about this in the past??

 

[Jaffa Cakes]

If it works into your business then 2 years of cropping would break the cycle perfectly? I think I’m right with that? @neilo I’m sure you’ve mentioned something about this in the past??

It dosnt work into business right now but but maybe something i need to think about. Im only a hobby farmer but want to look after the ground. Trying to get headspace to take a critical look at what im doing after dad passed away last year.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Cattle is your best bet. And don't get rid of them when the sheep come back

 

[Estate fencing.]

Didn’t someone once say the farm doesn’t get sheep sick the shepherd does.

 

[ISCO]

Grazing with cattle alternat years would help break the worm challenge.
A 2 year cropping break would be better.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

It dosnt work into business right now but but maybe something i need to think about. Im only a hobby farmer but want to look after the ground. Trying to get headspace to take a critical look at what im doing after dad passed away last year.

I’m sorry to hear that . If it doesn’t fit your job, would there be opportunity to let to neighbour for maize or wholecrop allows you to destock a bit, draw decent rent for ground, then back into grass and away you go again?

 

[neilo]

Got some ground here that i think has just had constant sheep for too long. How much rest do folk think it would need to make a real difference? Couple of cuts of silage? Full year grazed with cattle? Or ploughed and cropped for a year or two?

Thoughts welcomed!

What do you call ‘sheep sick’? Has it degenerated into cr*p pasture and fertility dropped, or is it riddled with worms? if the former, then the management wants changing, if the latter then cropping or cattle grazing would reduce them significantly.

I would suggest that most ground described as sheep sick is actually ‘sheep farmer sick’, given the number that remove the productive species by set stocking and/or overgrazing, paddling it to death in the winter, not invest in basics like lime or ever consider reseeding.
Many sheep farmers will say the dairy lads have it easy with their pastures, but those dairy boys generally do all the above. No reason at all that a lot of sheep pastures wouldn’t improve dramatically if managed in a similar fashion.

 

[yoki]

Local vet told me that a break from early/mid-October until around mid July the following year will break any cycles and essentially act as a reset.

So I now rotate the area of cutting on roughly a five year cycle (again, his recommendation) and close up the next years cutting ground around mid-October, FYM as soon as possible after that, make hay whenever in June permits, and it'll generally then be late July before it's being grazed anyway.

I was never aware of any issue with the ground being "sheep sick", but anthelmintic resistance is a definite thing and I'd rather avoid it if possible, or at least minimise the risk of it occurring, than ever have to deal with it.

 

[badger nadgers]

Hello

It sounds as though you are returning to something you love after it’s necessarily had to take a back seat. That’s good news, many people lack something like this to help bring them back out of grief, but you are coping with the inherently retrospective tasks around bereavement and starting to look forwards to rebuilding your life.

Recognising you want to get land back into shape and doing so will help you focus, so having a hobby flock rather than a commercial one will be an advantage. If you are not reliant on this for your income, you could destock. Perhaps not completely, as you might still want some of the little fluffy beggars on to give the place some life, but being able to shut off much of the ground should do it (and you) wonders.

Bringing on cattle is something to consider but given the time of year and that it’s probably been eaten short by sheep, it might be an option to give it a chance to grow unhindered. You will be able to see what you’ve got, and work out what you want to do. Give it and yourself a break and time to think. When we’re in the usual throws of production, it’s hard to make changes, but now you’ve got the opportunity to take all that stuff you’ve learned over the years and put it into practice. With ground closed off you can get fences, walls and buildings repaired, gates replaced, handling areas improved, weeds treated. They might also be easier done without cattle around (whose requirements you might need to consider too).

As for the ground itself, you’ll get a chance to run any tests you need to run, find the right people to do it, and have time for money to do it come through. Others on here are far more knowledgeable on this. Spending a year of so outdoors in the natural world, getting exercise, meeting people and so on will all help you get sorted far better than rushing in to lime or reseed. If that needs doing in due course, then so be it, but till then I would suggest getting you out there comes first.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I used to shut most of mine away fir silage after lambs had gone , ewes went on tight grazing until dried off , after silage was cut fertilizer went on they ewes flushed on it and tupped

 

[Kevtherev]

Muck plough crop more muck then reseed

 

[ringi]

The traditional answer is a year of cutting and another year of cattle before putting sheap back on a field unless in an arable rotation

 

[neilo]

Mature ewes can be used to hoover up worms after weaning too, much like cattle, but slightly less effectively.

We’re not fighting ridiculous worm burdens on the grassland here, despite no cattle being on the place and only small amount being shut off for mowing.
I have arable too, but that is in separate fields that are rarely rotated through grass. My tenancy agreement means that most of my current grassland has to stay as permanent pasture, regardless of whether it’s suitable for cropping or not.

 

[ringi]

Mature ewes can be used to hoover up worms after weaning too, much like cattle, but slightly less effectively.

We’re not fighting ridiculous worm burdens on the grassland here, despite no cattle being on the place and only small amount being shut off for mowing.
I have arable too, but that is in separate fields that are rarely rotated through grass. My tenancy agreement means that most of my current grassland has to stay as permanent pasture, regardless of whether it’s suitable for cropping or not.

Am I right to assume you use cover crops etc on the arable land every winter so the PP get a rest every winter and the ewes are on this clean ground pre lambing?

 

[neilo]

Am I right to assume you use cover crops etc on the arable land every winter so the PP get a rest every winter and the ewes are on this clean ground pre lambing?

I grow various forage crops as part of the arable rotation and all sheep are wintered on those crops from around Christmas. Grazing rotations start from early March on some blocks, with some groups, but most only come off crop just before lambing.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

An interesting thought might be, "how many paddocks do I have for each mob I run on the farm?" as I think this demonstrates the phenomenon of "sheep sick" pasture pretty well .

A dairy might run 80 or 100 paddocks for a milking herd (and a hospital mob of a few) whereas a sheep farm might have 15 paddocks and want to run between 3 and 5 different mobs at times - this makes the farm pretty bloody small, regardless of acreage, as so many acres are limited in their effectiveness due to no rest.

What we have seen is that having animals "parked" is what is most destructive to pasture and land, followed closely by rotationally overgrazing them (3 paddocks per mob is a ticket to Shitsville) but the sheep don't have to be removed in order to build up pastures with rest

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Brings you back to what's growing again
For intensive sheep grazing without much moving around then Late Diploid Perennial Small Leaf Clover and Some Timothy is where
it's at , I've never been a fan of Meadow Grass, it's unproductive and if low feed value
These grasses can stand being parked on

But then that's another topic as the point was parasite build up on pastures

We used to rotate 3000 ewes on 50 acre blocks fortnightly, if grass go to far ahead it seemed to couse foot problems

 

[TelesnaAg]

It dosnt work into business right now but but maybe something i need to think about. Im only a hobby farmer but want to look after the ground. Trying to get headspace to take a critical look at what im doing after dad passed away last year.

Common process over here in the badlands of oz is sumer crop, annual (we can graze all year here) and then summer crop then back to perm pasture, at least you can feed livestock and maximise your operation rather than be involved in arable etc.

Ant...

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Brings you back to what's growing again
For intensive sheep grazing without much moving around then Late Diploid Perennial Small Leaf Clover and Some Timothy is where
it's at , I've never been a fan of Meadow Grass, it's unproductive and if low feed value
These grasses can stand being parked on

But then that's another topic as the point was parasite build up on pastures

We used to rotate 3000 ewes on 50 acre blocks fortnightly, if grass go to far ahead it seemed to couse foot problems

It's certainly where it's at, until you manage to be cause in the matter of The Annual Drought, and then it isn't