Hampshire Down

[Sandpit Farm]

Right then, we're keeping 50 1/2 hamp ewe lambs this year, we're unsure of what tup to put them to, I've been told by @shropshirelass that charolaise "are too ugly" (sorry @neilo!) and texal "are too common"

Any suggestions?

Charolais or Texal! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What's actually important??

 

[Sandpit Farm]

Charolais or Texal! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What's actually important??

Breed what sells, don't sell what you breed. If Texels are common in you area - why is that?

 

[MRT]

Because no ones heard of a Charmoise yet!!!

 

[neilo]

Right then, we're keeping 50 1/2 hamp ewe lambs this year, we're unsure of what tup to put them to, I've been told by @shropshirelass that charolaise "are too ugly" (sorry @neilo!) and texal "are too common"

Any suggestions?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What are you doing with the progeny? If they are for slaughter, I think you'd struggle to do better than an ugly Charollais or a common Texel. Especially so if you will be selling live. Before anyone suggests Belties, I would have thought that, having presumably put the best attribute of a Hampshire (growth) into your females, it would be plain madness to stick something slow growing on.

If you want to keep the females, then other options might be better.

 

[MRT]

So, are there no useful Suffolks in the world at all? I would have thought pure growth rate would be their scene

 

[Hurdle bunter]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What are you doing with the progeny? If they are for slaughter, I think you'd struggle to do better than an ugly Charollais or a common Texel. Especially so if you will be selling live. Before anyone suggests Belties, I would have thought that, having presumably put the best attribute of a Hampshire (growth) into your females, it would be plain madness to stick something slow growing on.

If you want to keep the females, then other options might be better.

We're looking to build up ewe numbers so looking at the maternal side of things

 

[Sandpit Farm]

We're looking to build up ewe numbers so looking at the maternal side of things

Then there is a Roussin sale at Worcester on 6th September that would be worth going to.

Alternatively, I believe Easyrams Suffolks could be an option.

Is it just 50 to tup or more? If it's just 50, save some money and get a good ram lamb. If you speak to the breeder nicely, they may get them fertility tested by the vet

 

[sheepfarmer]

Regarding the Hampshire LW being "Fat" after a certain Kilo. As has been stated the society has made great strides in terms of genetic improvement of the Hampshire and the sheep look different to what they were 20 years ago. However, if your market is still believing what is now the myth of "oh the teddy bears = fat after 35KG" well there are two simple alternatives.

1) Don't sell your lambs at market, send them direct = better prices. However, I know and I can understand why people still send them LW to market so the alternative is.

2) Sell them earlier so that they are less LW and won't be deemed fat. You'll get the prices and you would have saved a week or two of grass.

Hopefully market trends at LW will show though that the Hamps are unlike other down breeds in terms of being proactive with their genetics and recording. Livestock markets should not be painting them all with the same brush.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

We have 6 pure hamp lambs, one ram and 3 ewes, all on good perm/past and I don't consider any of them fat.

We sponged all our ewes a month ago and as it was the first time I asked the vet to do it. All the sheep were in and he commented on how well they looked. "Not too fat?" I asked, and he said certainly not.

Everyone told me they would get fat on a concrete car park but that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Absolutely Cab-over Pete. What you say is spot on and that should be highlighted when you get your cheque after sending them for cull.

 

[romneymarsh]

So, are there no useful Suffolks in the world at all? I would have thought pure growth rate would be their scene

Of course there are . Just find a breeder that uses a bit of grass to feed them . The heavily add lib fed ones have a habit of not making it through their second winter and if they do they are pretty lean and rarely recover adequate condition.

 

[romneymarsh]

Regarding the Hampshire LW being "Fat" after a certain Kilo. As has been stated the society has made great strides in terms of genetic improvement of the Hampshire and the sheep look different to what they were 20 years ago. However, if your market is still believing what is now the myth of "oh the teddy bears = fat after 35KG" well there are two simple alternatives.

1) Don't sell your lambs at market, send them direct = better prices. However, I know and I can understand why people still send them LW to market so the alternative is.

2) Sell them earlier so that they are less LW and won't be deemed fat. You'll get the prices and you would have saved a week or two of grass.

Hopefully market trends at LW will show though that the Hamps are unlike other down breeds in terms of being proactive with their genetics and recording. Livestock markets should not be painting them all with the same brush.

I very much agree with what you say and the same argument could be made for other breeds but in our corner of the country LW is the only real alternative as there are no big abbatoirs in the SE. Nothing's changed in the perceptive attitudes of LW buyers in the last 20 years. Wooly heads and open coats are just a club to thump us with!
The trend locally, endorsed by local market signals( and even stated in the weekly market report) is to pump concentrates into your lambs to achieve ' top prices' regardless of concerns over profitability, take lambs to over > 45kg and buyers fall over each other to buy them with the auctioneer barely stopping as he walks along the line. Grass fed ' leaner lighter' weight lambs at 40 kg take the average to below SQQ prices regardless of breed.

We are constantly encouraged to strip costs out of our business yet these signals appear to encourage the exact opposite.

To return to the original thread you would be a brave man to put a Hampshire across a flock of late March April lambing ewes with lambs destined for the LW auction let alone the store market but of course I hear they grow so fast there would never be any stores

 

[sheepfarmer]

I very much agree with what you say and the same argument could be made for other breeds but in our corner of the country LW is the only real alternative as there are no big abbatoirs in the SE. Nothing's changed in the perceptive attitudes of LW buyers in the last 20 years. Wooly heads and open coats are just a club to thump us with!
The trend locally, endorsed by local market signals( and even stated in the weekly market report) is to pump concentrates into your lambs to achieve ' top prices' regardless of concerns over profitability, take lambs to over > 45kg and buyers fall over each other to buy them with the auctioneer barely stopping as he walks along the line. Grass fed ' leaner lighter' weight lambs at 40 kg take the average to below SQQ prices regardless of breed.

We are constantly encouraged to strip costs out of our business yet these signals appear to encourage the exact opposite.

To return to the original thread you would be a brave man to put a Hampshire across a flock of late March April lambing ewes with lambs destined for the LW auction let alone the store market but of course I hear they grow so fast there would never be any stores

Obviously there are different market trends for different areas and different abattoirs. Certainly the trend from what I have seen and heard in Wales is not the case re the weights. Taking lambs greater than 45KG live weight would not be encouraged (irrespective of breed). I've not read the market report for Wales but in the main you send a 45KG lamb to Livestock and they would be classified as Hoggets and impact on the price negatively. I would imagine that it is because of the high proportion of upland sheep in Wales who would struggle to reach 45KG at mature size.

If the breed suits your system then stick do it is my philosophy. There does appear to be more brave men at least in Wales who are trying the Hampshire for later lambing. The breed was featured last month on Welsh TV (Ffermio) with a farmer saying how it turned his fortunes around. These were Later lambers, claiming they were hitting the nice trade window at an earlier rate - therefore saving grass/feed/worming etc. The television programme is online with subtitles on the S4C website.

Every breed has its strength and weaknesses.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Or you could cross them with a clean headed breed of some sort.

Then they would need a paper bag over their entire heads.

 

[slaney]

So, are there no useful Suffolks in the world at all? I would have thought pure growth rate would be their scene

There is but people only ever talk about the huge heads and bone that the top breeders produce there is loads of non cabbage reared suffolks out there that produce lean reasonably good graded and extremely fast growing lambs.

 

[neilo]

Of those that have used Hamps on a commercial scale, alongside continental rams, what are they generally like for vigour at birth? It always used to be noted that pretty well all native breeds were fairly 'dopey', as compared to most continentals. Pretty sure Hamps had that reputation as well, but not had any personal experience of them. Might well have change with the influx of imported blood that went into them a few years ago. Was it from NZ Hamps?

 

[Tim W]

Saw some nice Hamp ram lambs today near Bath----recorded in top 10% of breed and with nice clean bums (which I always thought Hamps suffered with) ----NZ blood has apparently done them a lot of good according to their young breeder

 

[neilo]

Saw some nice Hamp ram lambs today near Bath----recorded in top 10% of breed and with nice clean bums (which I always thought Hamps suffered with) ----NZ blood has apparently done them a lot of good according to their young breeder

I wasn't going to mention that bit, in case I upset @Cab-over Pete

 

[Tim W]

I wasn't going to mention that bit, in case I upset @Cab-over Pete

Well i think I could recommend the animals I saw today---which is saying something seeing as they were covered in bl**dy wool from head to foot

 

[Sandpit Farm]

My experience is that they are very vigorous at birth. 100% better than suffolks.

(This is of course a broad brush statement).