Have I covered everything? Lambs for fattening and ewes for breeding - Hep P, worming, fluke, Clik

[HF85]

Hi all,

I am new to all of this! I potentially have 10 cade lambs for fattening arriving this weekend and 9 breeding ewes arriving the next. They will be kept on different land. Neither set have had any Heptavac P/Ovivac P or fluke, the ewes have been wormed.

So my questions are:

I have been recommended to Ovivac P the lambs but will also need to Heptavac P the ewes. I can only get 100ml of Ovi P and from what I understand I need to chuck it if I don't use it that day? So could I leave the lambs for a week without anything then jab all 19 with Hep P (which I can get 50ml = 25 doses)? I know there is a 40 day withdrawal for the Hep P but that would be fine. I am getting conflicting advice!

Worming and fluke. I think I need to give a combination wormer with another? I will worm then quarantine, do you do a day or two days? I thought I understood what I needed to do then vet started talking about about colour combinations (yellow and white or purple and clear) and now I am thoroughly confused! Please could someone clear this up for me and recommend some brands to look at? There seems to be lots on the market. I will check what the ewes have had done. Would you worm them again to be safe or not do this because of building resistance? They are going onto what I believe is completely clean ground (hasn't been grazed for several years). I will have fecal counts done after 6-8 weeks after worming.

Clik. I will do this as soon as they arrive, ewes will be shorn. Have I forgotten anything?!

Thank you if you have got this far, any advice much appreciated!

 

[twizzel]

Heptavac P has zero days meat withdrawal. I would heptavac everything as soon as all are on holding and again 4-6 wks time (as long as the lambs are over 3 weeks old)

 

[HF85]

Heptavac P has zero days meat withdrawal. I would heptavac everything as soon as all are on holding and again 4-6 wks time (as long as the lambs are over 3 weeks old)

Thank you twizzel. Could I keep the Heptavac for the week between or not? Is there a huge risk in leaving the lambs for a week before Heptavacing them if that isn't an option?

 

[primmiemoo]

Thank you twizzel. Could I keep the Heptavac for the week between or not? Is there a huge risk in leaving the lambs for a week before Heptavacing them if that isn't an option?

How far do you live from the vendors?
I'd go over and jab the lambs before they leave where they are, based on experience from years ago. It seems a huge waste to throw away more than half a bott of vaccine, and there's the cost, but the lambs are settled and yet to have the upheaval of travel.
Ime, tamers are susceptible to all sorts through lack of colostrum cover even if tubed soon after birth, so they'd be a priority.

If you're able, you could then put the bottle and wherever your choice of means of vaccination into a coolbag and do the ewes within the 8 hours.

If they're going onto clean ground, I think you might be best off keeping ewes on hard standing for 48 hours after worming, but there is probably a TFFer who's more of an expert who can advise more precisely.

Hope the sheep do well for you, btw.

 

[cheviot53]

What age are the cade lambs and have they been outside on grass ? sure they have had no treatment ? What with and when were the ewes last treated ? and have they never been fluked on their present holding ? then you can work out a treatment plan

 

[Al R]

Surely if the ewes are shorn they don’t need Clik?

Are you wasting money and time heptavac’ing and ovivac’ing or have you got a known problem? We don’t do either on anything! If the ground hasn’t been grazed for several years it probably won’t need heptavac/ovivac ?

Footvax is meant to be chucked after that day of use, we buy 250ml bottles and if we have 100ml left we keep it for the next year and we’ve never had a problem!

 

[HF85]

How far do you live from the vendors?
I'd go over and jab the lambs before they leave where they are, based on experience from years ago. It seems a huge waste to throw away more than half a bott of vaccine, and there's the cost, but the lambs are settled and yet to have the upheaval of travel.
Ime, tamers are susceptible to all sorts through lack of colostrum cover even if tubed soon after birth, so they'd be a priority.

If you're able, you could then put the bottle and wherever your choice of means of vaccination into a coolbag and do the ewes within the 8 hours.

If they're going onto clean ground, I think you might be best off keeping ewes on hard standing for 48 hours after worming, but there is probably a TFFer who's more of an expert who can advise more precisely.

Hope the sheep do well for you, btw.

The cade lambs are an hour and a half away annoyingly! I suppose the other option is I either ask the guy who has them to jab them and pay a bit more?

The ewes aren’t coming until a week later so don’t think the Hep will last that long and they are a fair distance away too so not really an option to drive from one to the other to jab!

Ok will keep the ewes in for 48 hours before they go out.

Thank you primmiemoo! Just looking forward to getting them all settled!

 

[Woolless]

You can get 50ml (25 dose) bottles of Heptavac P, which may help? The lambs could get that as well. It would contain everything Ovivac has and more.

 

[HF85]

What age are the cade lambs and have they been outside on grass ? sure they have had no treatment ? What with and when were the ewes last treated ? and have they never been fluked on their present holding ? then you can work out a treatment plan

Cade lambs are between 8-10 wks old and have just gone out on grass. They haven’t had any treatment.

The ewes have only been wormed. They haven’t been fluked or cliked as the owner doesn’t like chemicals(!). I’ll ask what they were wormed with and when. Did I dream it or is there a website where you can look up how much fluke there is likely to be in an area?! Bloody weird dream if it was! Thank you cheviot53!

 

[neilo]

Cade lambs are between 8-10 wks old and have just gone out on grass. They haven’t had any treatment.

The ewes have only been wormed. They haven’t been fluked or cliked as the owner doesn’t like chemicals(!). I’ll ask what they were wormed with and when. Did I dream it or is there a website where you can look up how much fluke there is likely to be in an area?! Bloody weird dream if it was! Thank you cheviot53!

Those cade lambs will need some concentrates, they aren’t old enough to thrive on grass alone, especially if they’ve been reared indoors.
I wouldn’t think twice about keeping the Heptavac bottle for a week between the batches, just use a bottle mount injector so that you’re sticking a dirty needle into the bottle between each sheep (good practice anyway) and keep it in the fridge between uses.

The most important thing imo, would be to quarantine drench those everything with Zolvix on arrival, then house for 24-48 hours. If you’ve (or anyone previously?) not had sheep on the place before, you have a golden opportunity to prevent resistant worms coming on, saving you a fortune in future years. Personally, i’d Give a jab of Trodax too, to clear out any resistant fluke that maybe there too.

If you Clik now, you should be able to forget about blowfly for the rest of the season.

 

[Stewartry hill]

The other possible thing is lice and ticks depending where they came from crovet instead of click

 

[Al R]

The other possible thing is lice and ticks depending where they came from crovet instead of click

And dectomax

 

[HF85]

Surely if the ewes are shorn they don’t need Clik?

Are you wasting money and time heptavac’ing and ovivac’ing or have you got a known problem? We don’t do either on anything! If the ground hasn’t been grazed for several years it probably won’t need heptavac/ovivac ?

Footvax is meant to be chucked after that day of use, we buy 250ml bottles and if we have 100ml left we keep it for the next year and we’ve never had a problem!

Hi Al R,

The honest answer is I don't know! All sheep set ups I have been involved with so far seem to have Hep/Ovi'd as standard so I planned to do the same. As they are unknown sheep going onto unknown land I thought it was probably better to err on the side of caution but open to advice (and cost savings!)....

Ok so potentially I could keep the Heptivac between jabbing lambs and jabbing ewes the following week?

 

[HF85]

Those cade lambs will need some concentrates, they aren’t old enough to thrive on grass alone, especially if they’ve been reared indoors.
I wouldn’t think twice about keeping the Heptavac bottle for a week between the batches, just use a bottle mount injector so that you’re sticking a dirty needle into the bottle between each sheep (good practice anyway) and keep it in the fridge between uses.

The most important thing imo, would be to quarantine drench those everything with Zolvix on arrival, then house for 24-48 hours. If you’ve (or anyone previously?) not had sheep on the place before, you have a golden opportunity to prevent resistant worms coming on, saving you a fortune in future years. Personally, i’d Give a jab of Trodax too, to clear out any resistant fluke that maybe there too.

If you Clik now, you should be able to forget about blowfly for the rest of the season.

Sorry forgot to say they are on creep pellets now and will stay on them when they arrive!

Great, sounds like the 50ml bottle of Hep P is my solution to not spending a fortune and getting them covered?! If I use Zolvix do I need to use another wormer in combination, apart from Trodax? Meanwhile I am off to sell a kidney to buy the Zolvix and drench gun! Will Clik them all on arrival too.

Thank you Neilo, much appreciated!

 

[primmiemoo]

Cade lambs are between 8-10 wks old and have just gone out on grass. They haven’t had any treatment.

The ewes have only been wormed. They haven’t been fluked or cliked as the owner doesn’t like chemicals(!). I’ll ask what they were wormed with and when. Did I dream it or is there a website where you can look up how much fluke there is likely to be in an area?! Bloody weird dream if it was! Thank you cheviot53!

Sheeps are a steep learning curve
It's so easy to feel overwhelmed by it all at first.

You're not wrong about websites offering parasite forecasts ~ I use the SCOPS one. There's info about worms there, and, iirc, links to info on the infernal workings of the ovine.

Have a google for Lesley Stubbings and Kate Philips ~ what they don't know about sheep between them ... .

If of any further help, there's a National Sheep Association event coming up at Malvern (Three Counties showground) next month. It's open to all (entry fee, though), and there's opportunity to hear anand possibly talk to experts in their fields who treat all of us the same whether we've half a dozen sheep or thousands.

 

[primmiemoo]

Ok so potentially I could keep the Heptivac between jabbing lambs and jabbing ewes the following week?

Personally, I wouldn't keep it. Years ago all the Heptavac/Ovivac range contained a preservative and you could keep unfinished bottles for later use.

The rules on preservatives changed, and ever since the makers have instructed not to keep it because a) it isn't going to work, and b) it will be gone off and could cause problems in the sheep it's injected into.

 

[HF85]

You can get 50ml (25 dose) bottles of Heptavac P, which may help? The lambs could get that as well. It would contain everything Ovivac has and more.

Woolless I think that is my plan!

 

[HF85]

Sheeps are a steep learning curve
It's so easy to feel overwhelmed by it all at first.

You're not wrong about websites offering parasite forecasts ~ I use the SCOPS one. There's info about worms there, and, iirc, links to info on the infernal workings of the ovine.

Have a google for Lesley Stubbings and Kate Philips ~ what they don't know about sheep between them ... .

If of any further help, there's a National Sheep Association event coming up at Malvern (Three Counties showground) next month. It's open to all (entry fee, though), and there's opportunity to hear anand possibly talk to experts in their fields who treat all of us the same whether we've half a dozen sheep or thousands.

Great minds, I have joined NSA and I am planning to go to the event at Malvern! Are you going?

 

[primmiemoo]

Great minds, I have joined NSA and I am planning to go to the event at Malvern! Are you going?

Entry will be free to you, then.

Still unsure if going atm. Knowing my luck, it might be top silaging weather here at One-cut-only Acres.
Whenever I've been before, I've come back stuffed to gunwales with information that's actually transferrable to flock management in home conditions.

Small drawback, though ... all too often extend standholders' order books

 

[Highland Mule]

I think I'd chance the cades for a week and inject everything at the same time. Assuming I was going to inject the cades at all, but you might as well, given you will have to buy a 25 shot bottle and will have enough left over to do them for 'free'.