have rules changed regarding fat lambs and teeth ?

[Old Tip]

Rearing 1000 lambs isn't a full time job.

Maybe but it should be, one minute we are shocked and concerned about the death role of farmers in accidents then saying running a flock of 600 to 1200 ewes is a part time job

 

[unlacedgecko]

Maybe but it should be, one minute we are shocked and concerned about the death role of farmers in accidents then saying running a flock of 600 to 1200 ewes is a part time job

It's progress. Just like no one hand makes 1 car a year as a full time job.

 

[Hilly]

Rearing 1000 lambs isn't a full time job.

Fair point, i bet alot make a full time job out of less tho.

 

[Hilly]

But that's on top of his labour - he always allows his labour in his cop

I bet.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I bet.

Just using GUTH'S own figures.

 

[gone up the hill]

Rearing 1000 lambs isn't a full time job.

The people on here running large numbers of sheep single handed have all been posting about ill health/ depression etc the last few weeks.

You clearly are on a race to the bottom Ie : have no work/life balance and try and get into the local graveyard 20 years before you should be there all in the name of producing lamb cheaper and cheaper each year.

I believe that you haven't been in the job very long, but sooner or later we will get a very hard winter like 63/82/ 2010 etc or you will get ill but there will be no slack in your system and you will end up with a massive welfare issue on your hands.

No one can work at 110% for 52 weeks of the year for years on end.

Also a lot of sheep farmers also run beef cattle/ arable etc etc so numbers are very realtive unlike you who just run sheep.

 

[gone up the hill]

I bet.

Yep its always accounted for.

 

[Old Tip]

The people on here running large numbers of sheep single handed have all been posting about ill health/ depression etc the last few weeks.

You clearly are on a race to the bottom Ie : have no work/life balance and try and get into the local graveyard 20 years before you should be there all in the name of producing lamb cheaper and cheaper each year.

I believe that you haven't been in the job very long, but sooner or later we will get a very hard winter like 63/82/ 2010 etc or you will get ill but there will be no slack in your system and you will end up with a massive welfare issue on your hands.

No one can work at 110% for 52 weeks of the year for years on end.

Also a lot of sheep farmers also run beef cattle/ arable etc etc so numbers are very realtive unlike you who just run sheep.

We def agree on this one @gone up the hill, add to bad winters health scares and disease outbreaks

 

[Poorbuthappy]

The people on here running large numbers of sheep single handed have all been posting about ill health/ depression etc the last few weeks.

You clearly are on a race to the bottom Ie : have no work/life balance and try and get into the local graveyard 20 years before you should be there all in the name of producing lamb cheaper and cheaper each year.

I believe that you haven't been in the job very long, but sooner or later we will get a very hard winter like 63/82/ 2010 etc or you will get ill but there will be no slack in your system and you will end up with a massive welfare issue on your hands.

No one can work at 110% for 52 weeks of the year for years on end.

Also a lot of sheep farmers also run beef cattle/ arable etc etc so numbers are very realtive unlike you who just run sheep.

Come on Guth, there's no way producing 1000 lambs requires working 110% 52 weeks of the year.
I accept that on an early lambing indoor system you'll probably want extra help at lambing, but with all those lambs sold by 6/7 months old, what are you doing with yourself for the other 5/6 months of the year?

Obviously few early lambing farms work in this way, producing that many lambs, and other enterprises mean folks are busy year round, but in the example given, producing 1000 lambs can't be described as working 110% 52 weeks of the year.

 

[Old Tip]

Come on Guth, there's no way producing 1000 lambs requires working 110% 52 weeks of the year.
I accept that on an early lambing indoor system you'll probably want extra help, but with all those lambs sold by 6/7 months old, what are you doing with yourself for the other 5/6 months of the year?

Obviously few early lambing farms work in this way, producing that many lambs and other enterprises mean folks are busy year round, but in the example given, producing 1000 lambs can't be described as working 110% 52 weeks of the year.

Lots of hill farms will need to run 1200 ewes plus followers to produce 1000 lambs, we don't all farm in the land of milk and honey. They will have to do other work to support their income but it will be a full time job

 

[unlacedgecko]

Fair point, i bet alot make a full time job out of less tho.

I wonder how those businesses will cope post subsidy?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Not another debate on who works the hardest

 

[gone up the hill]

Come on Guth, there's no way producing 1000 lambs requires working 110% 52 weeks of the year.
I accept that on an early lambing indoor system you'll probably want extra help at lambing, but with all those lambs sold by 6/7 months old, what are you doing with yourself for the other 5/6 months of the year?

Obviously few early lambing farms work in this way, producing that many lambs, and other enterprises mean folks are busy year round, but in the example given, producing 1000 lambs can't be described as working 110% 52 weeks of the year.

These farms will be mixed enterprises.

He seems to think that keeping thousands of sheep single handed with poor returns is the way forward for the industry.

And this is something we as farmers shouldn't be saying should become the norm just to protect supermarket profit margins.

 

[unlacedgecko]

The people on here running large numbers of sheep single handed have all been posting about ill health/ depression etc the last few weeks.

You clearly are on a race to the bottom Ie : have no work/life balance and try and get into the local graveyard 20 years before you should be there all in the name of producing lamb cheaper and cheaper each year.

I believe that you haven't been in the job very long, but sooner or later we will get a very hard winter like 63/82/ 2010 etc or you will get ill but there will be no slack in your system and you will end up with a massive welfare issue on your hands.

No one can work at 110% for 52 weeks of the year for years on end.

Also a lot of sheep farmers also run beef cattle/ arable etc etc so numbers are very realtive unlike you who just run sheep.

You appear to be very narrow minded. I'm not suggesting that everyone run 1000s of sheep single handed, with no contingency a plan or outside help ever.

But you've made my point for me. 1000 sheep isn't a full time job if the farmers are also producing beef or arable crops.

I may have only been doing tack sheep full time for a couple of years, but I'm not stranger to agriculture or business. I've a customer who runs 2500 outdoor lambing ewes single handed, utilising a lot of rented ground. A low input shedding flock which has been selected for disease resistance and fat lamb production. He seems to do very well out of it. He farmed suckler cattle for some years as well, but decided they weren't economically viable so is now 100% sheep.

This individual broke his dominant wrist before Christmas. But he had personal accident insurance and a robust business continuation plan = no welfare issues.

Know of a farm where an agency herdsman was trampled by a cow a few weeks ago. The herdsman was self employed but didn't have any personal accident insurance. His fractured pelvis means that he can't work for 10-12 weeks so has had to sign on. An important lesson for all self employed.

 

[unlacedgecko]

These farms will be mixed enterprises.

He seems to think that keeping thousands of sheep single handed with poor returns is the way forward for the industry.

And this is something we as farmers shouldn't be saying should become the norm just to protect supermarket profit margins.

I haven't said that at all. I've said that producing 1000 lambs shouldn't take 2000 man hours per year.

 

[Tim W]

He seems to think that keeping thousands of sheep single handed with poor returns is the way forward for the industry.

.

Keeping 2000 ewes with decent returns could be the way forward though especially as part of a team keeping say 6000 ewes with back up/holidays covered nicely ?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Keeping 2000 ewes with decent returns could be the way forward though especially as part of a team keeping say 6000 ewes with back up/holidays covered nicely ?

Funnily enough, that's sort of my plan for next winter when I hope to expand sheep numbers to something similar, together with taking on a full time employee.

 

[gone up the hill]

Funnily enough, that's sort of my plan for next winter when I hope to expand sheep numbers to something similar, together with taking on a full time employee.

You are planning to keep 3000 ewes per labour unit??

 

[Hilly]

Funnily enough, that's sort of my plan for next winter when I hope to expand sheep numbers to something similar, together with taking on a full time employee.

You will need a hell of alot of ewes and land just to keep that employee i wouldnt bother myself.

 

[Hilly]

Lots of hill farms will need to run 1200 ewes plus followers to produce 1000 lambs, we don't all farm in the land of milk and honey. They will have to do other work to support their income but it will be a full time job

Yes and i bet after paying themsellfs a wage they are not left with 15-20k on top either.