Health and safety audit

[balerman]

Ive had both the bank manager and insurance rep here in the last couple months,this is a small farm with some contracting and a holiday let,both have advised a Health and Safety audit incase HSE come calling.I thought yes ,good idea till I found out the cost,between £1-2k for a visit followed up by a report,i know consultancy is expensive,but I fail to see how a small farm can justify this extra cost.All our machinery is well guarded,no slurry pit or silage clamp and good cattle handling facilities,insurance is bang up to date including legal cover and 3 separate public liability (farming,contracting and holiday let) what more can I do?

 

[rusty]

Try Nick Frampton from Rural Safety Advice. 07825 211020
He,s independent and his motto is Keep It Short and Simple.
Could be close to 1K, mine will be a bit more but he had a long way to travel and a bigger business here with 3 full time employees .

 

[Fubar]

Had a similar scenario. Ended up going with an nfu guy to do the audit. It was 1k for a visit and give you a few pointers and template or 1600 to write up all the risk / coshh assessments and give support if the hse come knocking. Guy was here 2 hours and went away to write up the report. It wouldn't take him long as he will mostly have to just copy and paste from previous jobs.
I just figured that if I get it done right the first time then I should be able to update it myself in the future.
Trouble with the hse is that there's no such thing as an accident.

 

[kiwi pom]

Ive had both the bank manager and insurance rep here in the last couple months,this is a small farm with some contracting and a holiday let,both have advised a Health and Safety audit incase HSE come calling.I thought yes ,good idea till I found out the cost,between £1-2k for a visit followed up by a report,i know consultancy is expensive,but I fail to see how a small farm can justify this extra cost.All our machinery is well guarded,no slurry pit or silage clamp and good cattle handling facilities,insurance is bang up to date including legal cover and 3 separate public liability (farming,contracting and holiday let) what more can I do?

If you’re sure everything is bang on, you have safe procedures in place and everyone has the correct training etc, and you’re confident you could pass an inspection I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

What does a HSE inspection cost, if anything and can you request one?

 

[balerman]

If you’re sure everything is bang on, you have safe procedures in place and everyone has the correct training etc, and you’re confident you could pass an inspection I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

What does a HSE inspection cost, if anything and can you request one?

HSE inspection costs nothing if everything is bang on,but I suspect they would find something on most farms,they are pretty much self funding now since they lost most of their government money after the credit crunch.For example a missing PTO guard on any machine in the yard would be £500 by the time they have written a report then come back to check you've replaced it(unless you can prove the machine cant be used).

 

[thesilentone]

Not sure you will be able to get one these days, most free services are gone. But, everyone in business should have a H&S Policy, god knows there has been enough written about it on here !!

People assume they are insured, only to find by not complying with blah, blah, blah, H&S regulation they either do not get paid out, or are partially paid out, or in the worst case scenario, end up in court.

If you are ever charged with a breach of H&S regulations, you open the flood gates for compensation claims that could finish your business.

The problem is, that H&S is continually changing, keeping up to date is a minefield.

 

[betweenthelines]

Methinks the OP doth protest too much! Or typical "can't afford H&S" attitude from a farmer?

He's running 3 businesses (farm, contractor, holiday let) and complaining about the cost of a H&S audit, so is the profit from the 3 businesses not enough to cover the cost, especially if, by being proactive you might be able to reduce insurance premiums?

Fine, just ignore the safety & welfare of your customers, but dont moan when you need to pay a Solicitor to defend you against a claim when someone staying in the holiday let slips over in your yard.

 

[kiwi pom]

Methinks the OP doth protest too much! Or typical "can't afford H&S" attitude from a farmer?

He's running 3 businesses (farm, contractor, holiday let) and complaining about the cost of a H&S audit, so is the profit from the 3 businesses not enough to cover the cost, especially if, by being proactive you might be able to reduce insurance premiums?

Fine, just ignore the safety & welfare of your customers, but dont moan when you need to pay a Solicitor to defend you against a claim when someone staying in the holiday let slips over in your yard.

Bit harsh, he seems to want to be doing the right thing. I don’t see how a 2 grand visit from an ‘expert’ (who will probably go way over the top to cover their arse) is going to help. You still have to do all the paperwork and compliance yourself.
A bit of googling as to what the laws actually are and a day thinking about how to go about implementing things will have the same result.
The biggest thing is having all the staff (if he has any) training up to date and all the paperwork in order.

 

[betweenthelines]

No. The biggest thing is having the right attitude to safety in the first place. Moaning about the cost of looking at H&S after TWICE being advised to do something, is not the right attitude. You pay an accountant to do you tax, you get a mechanic to repair your kit, so, seriously, what is the problem getting a professional to advise on safety? Theres a new thread on here, just today from a grieving family asking people to be careful. Id rather sign a cheque for a Safety audit than for a funeral!

 

[7610 super q]

I know nothing of the OP's income.
My holiday let does between £5-10k per year. Let's assume the farm does the same ? Contracting ? No idea. So potentially a report could take 10% of the years profits straight off. And that's just one quango.
The OP's posted on here looking for advice. One of the replies above sickens me. As do 50% of the posts on the " Beef on it's knees " thread.
I don't know whether the hot weather is to blame, but blimey it's unpleasant on this forum these days.

 

[JCMaloney]

Well worth the money IMHO.
It is the detail, paper trail & auditing that most folk get caught out on by with the HSE.

You might think everything is spot on but a fresh set of eyes can easily spot things you miss.

Useless statistic.... there are, on average 15 changes to the Highway Code every year! I never knew/considered that but the expert at the course knew it!!

 

[Doing it for the kids]

Similar situation to a OP here all though bigger enterprise but no formal requests.

I just recognised that we aren’t as good as we should be on these things so being charged 1k for a visit next month.

My basis is it’s expensive till there’s an accident and loss of life \ injury would play on my mind so having to spend the money. Owe it to those that work here.

I think the OP’s grouse is more about the cost of running a Bussiness, regardless of size, in the UK.

 

[neilo]

I’ve never heard such nonsense in all my life. You don’t have to have had anyone do a HSE ‘audit’ of your farm, it is not required by any body or insurance company, nor will you get an insurance discount for having had one.

I can fully understand the idea of having a fresh pair of eyes looking around, whether it’s for business purposes or HSE. However, to pay £2k for a clipboard wielding ‘expert’ to do so is just keeping yet more parasites in business imo.
Anyone can have free access to HSE advisory notes on their website, and that is one of the things you will be asked about if you have a visit. Most of it is just common sense, along with an unhealthy level of gold plating of course.

 

[deleted user 837354]

I agree, farms are very dynamic workplaces and hazards can appear and disappear over the course of the working year. Having a muppet with shiny shoes arrive on a particular day won't help much. I'd rather keep the £2000 and get the tractor hand brake fixed or something.

 

[puppet]

I just went on a free H&S preparation course. Especially if you have employees you should have a risk assessment. The trainer said there were plenty on the web to follow and H&S has plenty of guidance. There is no need for external people if you are a smaller business.
Main risks are livestock, falls and machinery. Guards and bale stacks are on their radar if visiting. Any training certificates should be available. A few warning signs - livestock, overhead wires, fragile foofs will help to show you have thought about things and if there was any incident should help.
Why not ask a neighbour to come and you do the same as a fresh pair of eyes helps to see things you accept.

 

[kiwi pom]

The fresh pair of eyes from a neighbour or friend thing is a good idea especially if from another industry. They might see obvious things that we miss Probably as useful as an expert without the bill.

 

[Kidds]

Why not ask a neighbour to come and you do the same as a fresh pair of eyes helps to see things you accept.

Most sensible approach to it but almost certainly the end of any good relationship with your neighbour when he starts telling you how you are doing things wrong.

Do it yourself and do not assume you are safe already. Chuck away the broken ladder, never mind the fact you repaired it. Replace the guard, it doesn't matter that only you uses that machine. etc etc. It's easy enough to do.

 

[betweenthelines]

I agree, farms are very dynamic workplaces and hazards can appear and disappear over the course of the working year. Having a muppet with shiny shoes arrive on a particular day won't help much. I'd rather keep the £2000 and get the tractor hand brake fixed or something.

Good argument against using any sort of advisor

 

[thesilentone]

With an objective to reduce deaths by 50%, must be worthwhile.

https://www.nfuonline.com/cross-sector/farm-business/farm-safety-partnership/


Anyone not taking H&S seriously, needs to have a serious talk with themselves, and stop looking at professionals as parasites and muppets in shiny shoes. This is typical, and at times endemic in and Industry with an atrocious safety record.

Are you part of the problem !!!

 

[Tomr10]

I would say that either a lot of had bad experience or no experience of the benefits. I admit I have no hse audit experience but complete iso audits and the benefits can well out weigh the cost.