Health & Safety policy and support

[SimonD]

I'm looking at Health & Safety in agriculture and the growing requirement to hold a H&S Policy statement. I'm studying towards a credited certificate although I have been involved in H&S in one way or another for the last 5 years and just need to certificate to support me.

I have seen what the main suppliers out there are supplying and i think they don't go far enough in support of maintaining a viable fit for purpose farm policy, a nice folder is presentationally nice but the policy itself needs maintenance to make it a working policy. My question is what would you out there ask for, would you want the bare bones policy where you do all the work, or when you have already purchased the main body an additional maintenance package would not be a significant addition but would be an all encompassing policy removing the burden from you the farmer.

Interested to here your views in general, very interested in the South West.

Regards

Simon

 

[topground]

No point in having a policy off the shelf apart from the basic form of words. You need to carry out risk assessments yourself with the staff so that they have some relevance. Work on staff understanding the importance of dynamic risk assessment which means " if I do this what will happen?" Particularly important in the varied environment that is agriculture.

 

[SimonD]

I fully understand this which is why I ask the question. I viewed an audit form a large company and it didn't relate to the company it was auditing at all, the risk assessments were poor and out of date, the policy statement itself did not have the required owner information. What i want to do is work with the farmer and ensure the policy is fit for purpose and is a working document when it's installed, this will include site visits as part of the maintenance plan. I understand farming as i have been for the last 6 years, I understand H&S as I have working in it for the 6 years directly and 10 indirectly.

I feel I would bring a lot more insight and a practical approach to site assessments than most H&S practitioners who do not have that level of farm awareness. I know for a fact it will be substantially better value for money than the policy I recently viewed. Dynamic assessments are great to get through an immediate obstacle but we must realise the person must be competent to make that assessment. Also how many young workers currently working on farms without a specific assessment?

Thanks for the input, your not a million miles away so if you ever want to discuss anything then please let me know.

Regards

Simon

 

[Andy26]

Is there not a company doing Agri biased H&S, I think its Safety Revolution, or something similar?

Are not most Risk assessments just generic? I know they shouldn't be, but a lot of companies have folders of the things to cover every eventually. In a previous career the company I worked for had a room full of the things along with a library of SOPS.

 

[SimonD]

There is and I imagine the risk assessments are generic in nature, each captured risk has a known recommendation against it. The ones i do are against specific risks and I don't have a catalogue of assessments to pull from. The important part is as has been pointed out getting the staff onboard so they realise the reason for risk management in the workplace, whether that workplace is building site or tractor cab. I looked at the revolution website and its very much what I intend doing albeit on a larger scale.

Maintenance of the policy ( additional risk assessments) along with staff training are important factors that shouldn't be undervalued. There is more to risk management than simply risk assessments, it's about planning of tasks, continuation training, safe working practices which when combined should enhance any business if it reduces accidents, staff sickness with subsequent staff replacement cost and obvious machinery replacement, not forgetting any fines levied by the HSE.

 

[Andy26]

There is and I imagine the risk assessments are generic in nature, each captured risk has a known recommendation against it. The ones i do are against specific risks and I don't have a catalogue of assessments to pull from. The important part is as has been pointed out getting the staff onboard so they realise the reason for risk management in the workplace, whether that workplace is building site or tractor cab. I looked at the revolution website and its very much what I intend doing albeit on a larger scale.

Maintenance of the policy ( additional risk assessments) along with staff training are important factors that shouldn't be undervalued. There is more to risk management than simply risk assessments, it's about planning of tasks, continuation training, safe working practices which when combined should enhance any business if it reduces accidents, staff sickness with subsequent staff replacement cost and obvious machinery replacement, not forgetting any fines levied by the HSE.

I can certainly see a demand for such a service, outsourcing all the H&S paperwork takes a great deal of the stress away. When you're starting from scratch it can be bewidering.

 

[topground]

I fully understand this which is why I ask the question. I viewed an audit form a large company and it didn't relate to the company it was auditing at all, the risk assessments were poor and out of date, the policy statement itself did not have the required owner information. What i want to do is work with the farmer and ensure the policy is fit for purpose and is a working document when it's installed, this will include site visits as part of the maintenance plan. I understand farming as i have been for the last 6 years, I understand H&S as I have working in it for the 6 years directly and 10 indirectly.

I feel I would bring a lot more insight and a practical approach to site assessments than most H&S practitioners who do not have that level of farm awareness. I know for a fact it will be substantially better value for money than the policy I recently viewed. Dynamic assessments are great to get through an immediate obstacle but we must realise the person must be competent to make that assessment. Also how many young workers currently working on farms without a specific assessment?

Thanks for the input, your not a million miles away so if you ever want to discuss anything then please let me know.

Regards

Simon

I have to admit to being first Authorised as an Inspector under the HSAWetc Act 1974 in 1977. I bought my first calf in the original Winford market when I was 11.
I don't quite know where that leaves me!

 

[SimonD]

I have to admit to being first Authorised as an Inspector under the HSAWetc Act 1974 in 1977. I bought my first calf in the original Winford market when I was 11.
I don't quite know where that leaves me!

Well as you've added the etc you've obviously stayed informed as quiet easy to lose touch with policy isn't it. I passed my HGV 15 years ago although I would never profess to being competent. Do you provide agricultural based policies?

Regards

Simon

 

[SimonD]

I can certainly see a demand for such a service, outsourcing all the H&S paperwork takes a great deal of the stress away. When you're starting from scratch it can be bewidering.

I agree which is why I'm looking at going down this route.

 

[Gillian]

Some of you do not need to use health and safety (H&S)consultants (some will need/want to use their help). A basic H&S policy template can be found on Hse.go.uk - for free (type in example healthandsafetypolicy). You can also find 'example risk assessment' templates - for free. This website also has a vast amount of industry information- free.

I am happy to be tell you this - I am a qualified health & safety consultant (alongside project management): Qualifications/Certificates
BSc Agriculture
Chartered IOSH
Registered OSHCR
Nebosh Environmental Diploma
Registered MaPS
International & National Haulage CPC +Class1 driver)

I have many years experience in agriculture/equestrian/construction/mining/quarrying/haulage/petro chem/retail/prcessing/event management etc.. I am a farmers wife and daughter (and also have worked on the farm. I run a registered advisory - which offers a bespoke service/ not a generic file (I am insured and I also have to pay the tax man!)

If you are paying a consultant - make sure you get a good one (you can look on the OSHCR websire for registered ones, they have to have expereince to be registered) -make sure you get one with a range of experience as many farms have 'non-farming businesses attached', and make sure you get one who will honestly tell you if you do not need to pay for certain advice.

 

[topground]

Well as you've added the etc you've obviously stayed informed as quiet easy to lose touch with policy isn't it. I passed my HGV 15 years ago although I would never profess to being competent. Do you provide agricultural based policies?

Regards

Simon

I bailed out 4 years ago having seen the H&S "industry grow to a point where I think many have lost sight of the product in amongst the process. HSE are well aware of this I but I don't think their efforts to simplify things have gone down well with some of the "professionals" in the game.
I still shudder at the attitude of a manager of a vehicle repair workshop I audited. This was part of a large organisation with its own in house H& S section. The manager had received training on risk assesments. He was very proud of the two lever arch files full of his risk assesments that he showed me. Before I went through them I asked him how he drew them to the attention of his staff (Drivers and mechanics). his reply was " I don't show them to my staff, they wouldn't understand them".

 

[SimonD]

I bailed out 4 years ago having seen the H&S "industry grow to a point where I think many have lost sight of the product in amongst the process. HSE are well aware of this I but I don't think their efforts to simplify things have gone down well with some of the "professionals" in the game.
I still shudder at the attitude of a manager of a vehicle repair workshop I audited. This was part of a large organisation with its own in house H& S section. The manager had received training on risk assesments. He was very proud of the two lever arch files full of his risk assesments that he showed me. Before I went through them I asked him how he drew them to the attention of his staff (Drivers and mechanics). his reply was " I don't show them to my staff, they wouldn't understand them".

Which is why you said about involving the staff which I completely agree with, at the end of the day they are the ones at the coal face who need to understand the rules placed on them, they usually happen to be the youngest members of the workforce so again right in the crosshairs.

I fully understand you may feel I'm not qualified to do this job and technically until August you're correct, after August I'll also have AIEME Environmental Management which will sit well alongside my NEBOSH General Certificate. Will having post norms after a name mean the person can implement a fully working policy, I would suggest not after the one I looked at which didn't even include a significant piece of which was supposed to have been integral to the policy. I'm afraid post norms and being registered do not guarantee anything.

Topground I hope your busy and content, thanks for the input.

 

[Thick Farmer]

We work on a lot of building sites and in some cases it can be a case of 'health and safety abuse'. Usually because the H+S guy on site is a jobs worth and not capable of listening to sense.

As far as Method Statements and Risk Assessments go, I have generic copies and alter them for specific sites and conditions. These have to be right, as if there is a problem or an injury the MS can be used to incriminate you if it has not been followed to the letter.

 

[SimonD]

We work on a lot of building sites and in some cases it can be a case of 'health and safety abuse'. Usually because the H+S guy on site is a jobs worth and not capable of listening to sense.

As far as Method Statements and Risk Assessments go, I have generic copies and alter them for specific sites and conditions. These have to be right, as if there is a problem or an injury the MS can be used to incriminate you if it has not been followed to the letter.

I suppose with agricultural work the majority of he enforcing action will come from the owner having identified the faults during the initial inspection, hopefully the workforce will be onside as in most cases the rules are plain and simple and easy enough to see the requirement for them, most people would engage a pto whilst leaning over it.


I have worked with people who do themselves no favours in how they deliver their requests, but that's in all walks of life.

 

[Gillian]

Appropriate experience is also a vital ingredient of competence. The development of competence is an ongoing process (I have a whole week of haulage driver CPD to undertake in April, despite having held my Class 1 licence for 11 years) . Registered professionals should be signed up to a 'Continuing Professional Development' programme, to enable them to stay up to date with changes in legislation and professional practice. Registration demonstrates consultants have proven experience and insurance. (They also have a system to deal with complaints about consultants).

Really any Client engaging a consultant is best to ask for additional information on relevant experience - and if this is unsatisfactory, get another consultant! OK a bit harder when you are at the mercy of a site H&S guy who is a jobsworth - you can only make sure that your own detail is suitable (then send him to the cabin for a cup of tea - buy him biscuits if you have too, it will keep them away for longer!).

As well as having undertaken farm work (and horse work), I also work on site as a contract worker (plant/lorry driver) and project manager (and I continue to do project management and CDMC roles/Transport management around H&S advisory), and I also would not want to work doing pure H&S advisory - as there are still people in the industry who give it a very bad name; but if Clients ask for relevant experience this will improve. I am proud of my professional qualifications - I worked bl**dy hard to get them!

Yes I do spend 50% of my time undertaking farm/estate H&S advisory and CDMC for shed builds on farms; but I have been fortunate to meet some good consultants - and yes, there are always a few who seem to be in the wrong job