heavy rushes - plan of attack

[beck3006]

Hi - I'm looking for some advice. We have several fields that through neglect have built up dense rushes over the last 15-20 years. A couple were drained in the 1980's / 90's, one was not although does not seem overly wet. Soil PH around 5.6-5.8. P&K fine. Some although not all of the land may have quite a lot of rocks not too far below the surface. My thoughts were to try to tackle this over several years as follows; mow the rushes off next summer after early grass (and nesting birds) have gone, spray the regrowth after a couple of months (as suggested on various prior threads I have read), maybe eventually mow off the hopefully dead regrowth, lime @ 2 tons / acre, subsoil. I doubt reseeding next year is an option but maybe in 2-3 years.

What I am not sure about is;
Flail mower or disc mower? We have the latter, would need to find someone with the former - I would think flailing would accelerate the rotting off of existing rushes.
For the regrowth; what spray and how to apply (spray or wipe)? Not reseeding next year makes me think spraying roundup won't be possible so not sure if spraying MCPA or wiping with roundup is best
From memory 2 tons of lime raises PH by 0.5, but I read that you can't really apply more than 2 tons at once; can more be done the following year or do I need to wait 2-3 years?
Given quite a lot of rocks not too deep down for SOME of the land (so can't plough 8" deep for most of it), not sure how to eventually reseed, given risks of encouraging the rush seed bank?

All thoughts and advice welcome and greatly appreciated

 

[brigadoon]

Hi - I'm looking for some advice. We have several fields that through neglect have built up dense rushes over the last 15-20 years. A couple were drained in the 1980's / 90's, one was not although does not seem overly wet. Soil PH around 5.6-5.8. P&K fine. Some although not all of the land may have quite a lot of rocks not too far below the surface. My thoughts were to try to tackle this over several years as follows; mow the rushes off next summer after early grass (and nesting birds) have gone, spray the regrowth after a couple of months (as suggested on various prior threads I have read), maybe eventually mow off the hopefully dead regrowth, lime @ 2 tons / acre, subsoil. I doubt reseeding next year is an option but maybe in 2-3 years.

What I am not sure about is;
Flail mower or disc mower? We have the latter, would need to find someone with the former - I would think flailing would accelerate the rotting off of existing rushes.
For the regrowth; what spray and how to apply (spray or wipe)? Not reseeding next year makes me think spraying roundup won't be possible so not sure if spraying MCPA or wiping with roundup is best
From memory 2 tons of lime raises PH by 0.5, but I read that you can't really apply more than 2 tons at once; can more be done the following year or do I need to wait 2-3 years?
Given quite a lot of rocks not too deep down for SOME of the land (so can't plough 8" deep for most of it), not sure how to eventually reseed, given risks of encouraging the rush seed bank?

All thoughts and advice welcome and greatly appreciated

Are your drains running and is the water table reasonably well below ground? If you have dense rushes it does not sound like it - and if your drains are not working you are probably wasting time and money until they are.

Mowers - makes no odds - if you use a disc mower you can bale for bedding. (yes it does work and if the muck is going on to drained ground no you will not spread rushes)

Regrowth - no point in spraying or wiping - if you are going down that route then do not bother cutting. Wiping with roundup works fine, if you go the cutting route then cut at least twice in the season.

Worry about re-seeding after you get the rushes under control.

If you are worried about the seed bank then disc it - leave it 2-3 weeks and spray or disc again before seeding.

 

[deere 6600]

Are your drains running and is the water table reasonably well below ground? If you have dense rushes it does not sound like it - and if your drains are not working you are probably wasting time and money until they are.

Mowers - makes no odds - if you use a disc mower you can bale for bedding. (yes it does work and if the muck is going on to drained ground no you will not spread rushes)

Regrowth - no point in spraying or wiping - if you are going down that route then do not bother cutting. Wiping with roundup works fine, if you go the cutting route then cut at least twice in the season.

Worry about re-seeding after you get the rushes under control.

If you are worried about the seed bank then disc it - leave it 2-3 weeks and spray or disc again before seeding.

spray with mcpa in spring we used larke .? Pick a time when growth is good lime and fert is important will take a while but you will see an improvement might not be till the next spring Heard of dairy farmer who bought a neighbouring field and drowned the rashes in slurry apparently they are all gone

 

[Wood field]

We had / have some really thick rush on away ground, year one . Topped and then weedwiper with roundup on regrowth
Year two topped but didn’t get back with weedwiper
Last year topped then sprayed soft growth with strong mcpa .
Year 3 was by far the most effective/ cost effective
Followed up with heavy dose of farmyard muck

 

[Cab-over Pete]

2 tonnes per acre of a good quality ground lime with a fine sample and a Neutralizing Value above 50% should raise the pH by a whole point @beck3006 not half a point as you were thinking.

 

[beck3006]

2 tonnes per acre of a good quality ground lime with a fine sample and a Neutralizing Value above 50% should raise the pH by a whole point @beck3006 not half a point as you were thinking.

Thanks Pete. I've not heard of 'neutralising value' before; is this something most lime spreading contractors would be able to tell me? And does this work in a linear way (i.e. if some lime had a neutralising value half that - 25% - would it raise PH by half that - 0.5)? BTW am I'm in Northern England if that makes any difference as to the likely source of lime. Tks

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Just don’t buy a cheap, screened lime. Only buy a ground product.

Any reputable contractor will bring good stuff if you tell them that. It’s quite simple, nothing to worry about.

 

[beck3006]

Just don’t buy a cheap, screened lime. Only buy a ground product.

Any reputable contractor will bring good stuff if you tell them that. It’s quite simple, nothing to worry about.

Thanks Pete - much appreciated. And just to be sure, spreading it on top of un-reseeded land (rather than ploughed land that will subsequently be disced, power harrowed etc and thus mixing the lime throughout the soil profile) can still absorb 2 tons per acre - i.e. I can raise PH by a whole point from one application?

 

[beck3006]

Are your drains running and is the water table reasonably well below ground? If you have dense rushes it does not sound like it - and if your drains are not working you are probably wasting time and money until they are.

Mowers - makes no odds - if you use a disc mower you can bale for bedding. (yes it does work and if the muck is going on to drained ground no you will not spread rushes)

Regrowth - no point in spraying or wiping - if you are going down that route then do not bother cutting. Wiping with roundup works fine, if you go the cutting route then cut at least twice in the season.

Worry about re-seeding after you get the rushes under control.

If you are worried about the seed bank then disc it - leave it 2-3 weeks and spray or disc again before seeding.

Thanks for your thoughts there. Drains seem to be running and to be fair some of the land is sloping so drainage doesn't seem to be a major issue. In terms of baling the mowed rushes - to be honest at £6 / bale I think this is probably going to be pretty expensive.
Thanks again

 

[Muddyroads]

I mow mine for bedding. Organic so not able to spray or wipe them. They need at least 2 weeks of good drying weather, 3 if possible. Makes good bedding as @brigadoon says, especially if you can chop them. Dung needs to be composted to encourage rotting. In my opinion this is much better than leaving the cut rushes on the floor to smother out what grass is there.

 

[beck3006]

We had / have some really thick rush on away ground, year one . Topped and then weedwiper with roundup on regrowth
Year two topped but didn’t get back with weedwiper
Last year topped then sprayed soft growth with strong mcpa .
Year 3 was by far the most effective/ cost effective
Followed up with heavy dose of farmyard muck

Interesting - thanks. When you say 'strong' MCPA what would you suggest? Also, withy hindsight would you think. it was more effective because you were addressing weakened rushes, or because you hit on the right method? Also - how long ago was this and has there been any return of them since? Thanks again

 

[beck3006]

I mow mine for bedding. Organic so not able to spray or wipe them. They need at least 2 weeks of good drying weather, 3 if possible. Makes good bedding as @brigadoon says, especially if you can chop them. Dung needs to be composted to encourage rotting. In my opinion this is much better than leaving the cut rushes on the floor to smother out what grass is there.

Hi @Muddyroads That is my concern hence the question re flail / disc mower. In reality I think the cost means the mowed rushes are unlikely to be baled so I am wondering both about what type of mowing to do, and also how to encourage grass (*rather than rush) regrowth; do I wait a couple of unproductive years as the grass recovers from being smothered and then reseed, or maybe direct drill into the spayed off then topped re-growth?

 

[Wood field]

Interesting - thanks. When you say 'strong' MCPA what would you suggest? Also, withy hindsight would you think. it was more effective because you were addressing weakened rushes, or because you hit on the right method? Also - how long ago was this and has there been any return of them since? Thanks again

90 ltr quad sprayer 1 ltr mcpa and 1/2 ltr 24d until it ran out , then we just used mcpa
I think the spray gets all round the rush where the wiper hit one side
Last done last summer but left to die rather than topped
I would say the spray was more effective , there’s some rush regrowth but it’s honestly 80% better ( I should really have followed up this year )
If it helps I am in south Pennines on wet thin soils , neighbours commented that he’s never seen as much grass on that ground
Don’t forget the muck and drains, good luck

 

[Muddyroads]

Cut on August 8th this year, baled on the 22nd

Maybe yours aren’t as thick as mine, but to my mind there’s little point in cutting them if you’re not going to clear them when they’re like this. You can see how much the rush have grown back under the cut material in 2 just weeks.

 

[beck3006]

90 ltr quad sprayer 1 ltr mcpa and 1/2 ltr 24d until it ran out , then we just used mcpa
I think the spray gets all round the rush where the wiper hit one side
Last done last summer but left to die rather than topped
I would say the spray was more effective , there’s some rush regrowth but it’s honestly 80% better ( I should really have followed up this year )
If it helps I am in south Pennines on wet thin soils , neighbours commented that he’s never seen as much grass on that ground
Don’t forget the muck and drains, good luck

Thanks - that's very helpful. FWIW we are not a million miles North of you so perhaps on similar soils. Probably don't have enough muck to apply heavily but will consider using strategically.
Thanks again

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I find mob grazing with the cattle high covers, short on time, high animal density does wonder for control of rushes. Other than than topping with a normal topper after grazing, so the grass can compete against the rush re growth. If I wasn't organic I would weed wipe with roundup. Then try to improve the sward with rotational grazing, short on time, long recovery period and a bit of lime and/or fibrofos wouldn't do any harm.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Thanks Pete - much appreciated. And just to be sure, spreading it on top of un-reseeded land (rather than ploughed land that will subsequently be disced, power harrowed etc and thus mixing the lime throughout the soil profile) can still absorb 2 tons per acre - i.e. I can raise PH by a whole point from one application?

Yes, should be no problem.

 

[beck3006]

 

[beck3006]

Just FYI various degrees of rush encroachment. See photo above

 

[beck3006]

Yes, should be no problem.

Thanks Pete. Really appreciate your advice