Herbal ley. Cost of establishment

[onesiedale]

As above, for budgeting purposes.
What would be the costs of establishing a herbal ley?
And do you feel it is worth it chasing the SFI £?
Or would it be better just staying with grass/clover mix for grazing/cutting?

 

[jackrussell101]

Most of the jokers round here are just broadcasting about £7.50 of herb seed per acre and harrowing it into existing permanent pasture, hasn't a hope in working and will ruin it for everyone, some bragging their doubling their BPS doing it, outright fraud and scheming the scheme if you ask me.

Done probably the seed will be towards £90 an acre alone.

 

[Werzle]

Most of the jokers round here are just broadcasting about £7.50 of herb seed per acre and harrowing it into existing permanent pasture, hasn't a hope in working and will ruin it for everyone, some bragging their doubling their BPS doing it, outright fraud and scheming the scheme if you ask me.

Done probably the seed will be towards £90 an acre alone.

Fair few spraying off grass and direct drilling herbal leys in so going to be costing close to £150/ac i would of thought

 

[Hampton]

As above, for budgeting purposes.
What would be the costs of establishing a herbal ley?
And do you feel it is worth it chasing the SFI £?
Or would it be better just staying with grass/clover mix for grazing/cutting?

I put a custom made SFI mix in that cost me £60/ac (granted that’s quite high but I got exactly what I wanted). It cost me around £30/acre to plant it with my own kit. So approx £90/ac costs (call it £100/ac for sake of argument. SFI pays £154/ac per year. Therefore year one profit on SFI is £54/ac. Year 2 is £154/ac and year 3 is £154/ac.
That is before I’ve grazed anything or taken any cuts off it.

 

[farmerm]

Most of the jokers round here are just broadcasting about £7.50 of herb seed per acre and harrowing it into existing permanent pasture, hasn't a hope in working and will ruin it for everyone, some bragging their doubling their BPS doing it, outright fraud and scheming the scheme if you ask me.

Done probably the seed will be towards £90 an acre alone.

In this instance blame the scheme not the schemer I say. Under SFI the "aim" of herbal ley is

• a mixture of grasses, legumes and herbs or wildflowers to provide varied root structures
• areas of flowering plants from late spring and during summer months

Put on and harrow in enough seed and it is reasonable to expect you will have a mix of species, varied root structure and some flowering plants. It might not be the density that you would consider to be a successful herbal ley establishment but even if you have only a hand full of none grasses and summer flowers per ha and you have done what was asked. Remember, before this we got paid just to own land, now they cant even manage to redistribute half the budget though this new system and millions destined to support the rural economy is being surrendered by DEFRA back to the treasury. A mix of species and varied root structure is not really a public good, flowering plants for pollinators is a minor public good.... remember there is a 40Kg/ha N limit on herb lays and restricted herbicides, this is the "public good" they are really committing the money for IMO.

 

[BrianV]

Fair few spraying off grass and direct drilling herbal leys in so going to be costing close to £150/ac i would of thought

Why spray off the existing grass & risk ending up with bugger all, we grazed the existing pastures really tight & then got a slit seeder in to plant it, herbs have come up & we still have the existing pasture mix, win win.
If the government don't stipulate how it has to be planted it seems to me you would be a fool to do it any other way!

 

[Hampton]

What’s the benefit of keeping the old, low yielding grass leys?

 

[BrianV]

What’s the benefit of keeping the old, low yielding grass leys?

Well if you are going to reseed your poor leys anyway then no problem but don't rely on a herbal mix alone to fill your silage pit year after year.

 

[hally]

Seems to be high risk burning off an old pasture around here lately. Combination of wet weather, panned ground, pests, slugs and acidification of decaying thatch on heavy ground had resulted in a few failures.

 

[jondear]

Slot seeded plantain in perfect
Conditions last year
non grew apart from bare gateway .Slugs had it all I think

 

[BrianV]

Slot seeded plantain in perfect
Conditions last year
non grew apart from bare gateway .Slugs had it all I think

The government don't guarantee it will grow everywhere & has to survive, if they make the stupid rules we just have to abide by them.

 

[HarryB97]

You don’t need a full on herbal ley. I’ve tried them over the years and they are good but I generally use a red clover based ley and then add a selection of herbs and Lucerne to meat the legume quantity requirement. Seed will be 90-100 an acre. I then do a shallow pass with the discs, cambridge roll, blow the seed on the top with the drill and then roll again. So another 60/70 an acre. Rotational grass is a key part of our farm with arable, beef and sheep so getting paid for doing nothing different is nice!

 

[Werzle]

Why spray off the existing grass & risk ending up with bugger all, we grazed the existing pastures really tight & then got a slit seeder in to plant it, herbs have come up & we still have the existing pasture mix, win win.
If the government don't stipulate how it has to be planted it seems to me you would be a fool to do it any other way!

Only saying what i see. I am swimming against the tide and claiming no grants, if enough sign up to not producing food it will be better for those of us who are....i hope.

 

[BrianV]

Only saying what i see. I am swimming against the tide and claiming no grants, if enough sign up to not producing food it will be better for those of us who are....i hope.

Risky strategy for the very brave.

 

[Henarar]

As above, for budgeting purposes.
What would be the costs of establishing a herbal ley?
And do you feel it is worth it chasing the SFI £?
Or would it be better just staying with grass/clover mix for grazing/cutting?

If you are going to reseed anyway you just as well put in some herbs as the extra money will pay for the reseed

 

[Henarar]

Only saying what i see. I am swimming against the tide and claiming no grants, if enough sign up to not producing food it will be better for those of us who are....i hope.

I am doing both, producing food and getting SFI

 

[farmerm]

What’s the benefit of keeping the old, low yielding grass leys?

Well in my case I don't have any wish to increase livestock numbers, I dont have the buildings, the time or the will, so why would I want to grow more grass....

 

[4course]

Rewilding

Exclusive:Highlands Rewilding land goes on sale for £10m to pay back bank loan used to buy it​

By Katharine Hay
Rural Affairs Correspondent
3Comments
Published 22nd Sep 2024, 06:00 BST

Highlands Rewilding founder Jeremy Leggett said the company “deliberately skated on thin ice” taking out the loan “to try and drive a rapidly-scaling breakthrough for nature restoration in Scotland.”
Estates owned by a rewilding company headed by a former director of Greenpeace are to go on the market for almost £10 million to repay a loan taken out for buying land for nature restoration.
Jeremy Leggett, of Highlands Rewilding Ltd (HRL), has until January to pay off £11m borrowed from state-owned UK Infrastructure Bank, largely used to buy the company’s Tayvallich estate in Argyll last May.

In draft brochures seen by The Scotsman, the company’s 514-hectares estate across Ulva and the Isle of Danna on the Tayvallich Peninsula is going on the market for £4.25m.
https://www.economist.com/culture/2...&OutbrainClickId=$ob_click_id$&obOrigUrl=true


Beldorney, a listed castle and 351-hectares estate in Aberdeenshire, bought by the company in 2021, is also for sale at £5m.

Further details on the properties will be released later this month from Strutt & Parker who are managing the sales.
Mr Leggett said he wanted the sales to replicate HRL’s sale of part of the Tayvallich estate to the Barrahormid Trust earlier this year. After purchasing the land for £3.2m, the Trust holds the land in perpetuity for nature restoration and community development, including house building.

Highlands Rewilding manages rewilding projects on several estates, including Beldorney Estate, which it is putting up for sale for £5m
In a letter to community groups, seen by The Scotsman, Mr Leggett confirmed residents get first refusal as buyers, with the deadline of December 10 to make an offer.


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Community groups have said various meetings and votes are taking place over the coming days in response to the news.
Failing a community bid, Mr Leggett said the priority will go to land buyers “prepared to guarantee nature recovery and community prosperity in perpetuity through establishment of a dedicated Trust, with HRL partnered as land manager, sharing natural capital proceeds. “

Mr Leggett said other potential buyers the company is targeting include family offices, environmental NGOs, and other philanthropic bodies “where there is strong alignment of values and objectives.”



The second priority will be to buyers who might not guarantee the nature and community in perpetuity model, but are aligned with the mission of nature restoration and community.
Mr Leggett said there is a chance the company will be forced to sell land to entities not interested in either of the above.
The letter said: “We are aware that 10th December is a very short timeline for communities to organise and submit a bid. But if our equity round fails as the end of October approaches, we will have no choice. Our loans must be repaid on time.”
The letter confirmed given the buyer preference, HRL is not obliged to accept the highest bid.
Mr Leggett said he is also in talks with 31 financial institutions to help raise the funds.
Martin Mellor, chairman of Tayvallich Initiative, said the community was “concerned” to hear of the proposed sales with a quick timeframe.

Dr Josh Doble, Community Land Scotland (CLS) Policy Manager, said CLS was “deeply concerned” about the sales “to repay enormous loans they took out to buy the land in the first place.”
He previously told The Scotsman: “Scottish land acquisitions should not be based upon these speculative financial models which require the rapid creation of underdeveloped natural capital markets in order to be financially viable.”

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Mr Leggett said accessing finance in “an embryonic nature recovery market” had been challenging given governments had been “slow” in delivering biodiversity commitments.
He said: “We have deliberately skated on thin ice to try and drive a rapidly-scaling breakthrough for nature restoration in Scotland. We have done this because of the dire imperatives of reversing global biodiversity collapse and climate meltdown, and with the consensus agreement of our shareholders.”

One word its all -----starts with a B and ends with an S

 

[farmerm]

Only saying what i see. I am swimming against the tide and claiming no grants, if enough sign up to not producing food it will be better for those of us who are....i hope.

Our commodity prices are heavily influenced by world markets, if every producer in the UK ceased production is would barely make a noticeable difference. You are better claiming the grants, at least the low hanging ones.

 

[Hampton]

Well I like SFI, herbal leys et Al.
The reason? Because when someone says “you farmers shouldn’t get subsidy” I can for the first time say “I don’t. I grow stuff that the govt paid for that you lot want us to grow”