Herbal ley mix revised seed mix 2024.

[gone up the hill]

Does anyone have the updated mix now allowed for the herbal ley option which is meant to allow increased productivity compared to the original mix allowed months ago ??

@Derrick Hughes ?

 

[mixedfmr]

Got some to do this Autumn, good Question, THANKS Was going to add herbs to a normal ley but Im whatching here

 

[Derrick Hughes]

At least 1 grass 2 Legumes 2 Herbs or Wildflowers

Overseed mix I'm sending out today
Needs some Ryegrass adding for a full Reseed
This was moee for cutting , for grazing reduce the red a bit , there are a lot of simple options , a lot already have some white clover

1.00 white clover



1.50 red clover



0.35 Chicory



0.30 Plantain

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Basically just get your normal seed mix with 2 clovers and add Plantain and Chicory

 

[devonbeef]

Basically just get your normal seed mix with 2 clovers and add Plantain and Chicory

how persistent are plantain and chicory Derrick? And how well do they establish in said mix ? thank you

 

[Derrick Hughes]

This has no Plantain
But 1 Tertraploid Hi Energy Ryegrass Chicory Red White Clover
You need to keep on top of it as you can see the Chicory is starting to bolt , needs cutting now , we have been getting around 18 CP from this field when cut

 

[egbert]

At least 1 grass 2 Legumes 2 Herbs or Wildflowers

Overseed mix I'm sending out today
Needs some Ryegrass adding for a full Reseed
This was moee for cutting , for grazing reduce the red a bit , there are a lot of simple options , a lot already have some white clover

1.00 white clover



1.50 red clover



0.35 Chicory



0.30 Plantain

I've already got way more than that* in my hay ground....can I just hold my hands out for the cash?

*red and white clover, masses of yarrow, rib grass, knapweed, soddin yellow rattle, as well as earlies like daisy/dandelion et al now long disappeared

 

[Samcowman]

how persistent are plantain and chicory Derrick? And how well do they establish in said mix ? thank you

Depends on how you manage it. Set stocked they will disappear quicker than if managed on longer rotations.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I've already got way more than that* in my hay ground....can I just hold my hands out for the cash?

*red and white clover, masses of yarrow, rib grass, knapweed, soddin yellow rattle, as well as earlies like daisy/dandelion et al now long disappeared

Yes ,

 

[Derrick Hughes]

how persistent are plantain and chicory Derrick? And how well do they establish in said mix ? thank you

Bit of a mistory herb to be honest , some fields they love and take over , don't like poor wet soils , thrive or drier fertile soils ,
Heavy winter grazing when its wet they don't like , up till last year I would say very persistent but something about last winter being so wet they did not like even when not overgrazed , not as reliable as Red Clover that should do 3 years , Chicory anything from 2 years to 4 here
Thing is keep it Simple, Herbs Clover , Hybrid or Tertraploid Ryegrass , more open in the bottom, Clovers and Herbs do better and after 2 years if your losing Herbs is easy to overseed more in

 

[devonbeef]

Bit of a mistory herb to be honest , some fields they love and take over , don't like poor wet soils , thrive or drier fertile soils ,
Heavy winter grazing when its wet they don't like , up till last year I would say very persistent but something about last winter being so wet they did not like even when not overgrazed , not as reliable as Red Clover that should do 3 years , Chicory anything from 2 years to 4 here
Thing is keep it Simple, Herbs Clover , Hybrid or Tertraploid Ryegrass , more open in the bottom, Clovers and Herbs do better and after 2 years if your losing Herbs is easy to overseed more in

thank for insight, tempted to try some on part of reseeds going forward and see how we go,have people around here just drilling Now into mowed permanent pasture can not see it beating the established weed grasses without spraying, but i guess they are hoping seed and drill bill will suffice , most might get away with it, if i do it, i would end up being one who does not, i guess you could say they are playing a gambling game with inspections

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I've already got way more than that* in my hay ground....can I just hold my hands out for the cash?

*red and white clover, masses of yarrow, rib grass, knapweed, soddin yellow rattle, as well as earlies like daisy/dandelion et al now long disappeared

That's a herbal ley. Get yer application in.

 

[egbert]

That's a herbal ley. Get yer application in.

can it be ground that's grazed year round too?
(planning my Caribbean holiday as we speak)

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

can it be ground that's grazed year round too?
(planning my Caribbean holiday as we speak)

AFAIK, there needs to be a rest period in the summer, presumably to allow for flowering. The sensible thing would be to carry on the existing management as all those species seem to like it.

 

[egbert]

AFAIK, there needs to be a rest period in the summer, presumably to allow for flowering. The sensible thing would be to carry on the existing management as all those species seem to like it.

With this in mind, I dropped in on the bigger bunch of coos this pm, as I drove round the far side of the valley.
40 cows are living (year round) on maybe 100 acres, spread over maybe 1.5 miles of steep river valleys (up and down from the confluence of 2 rivers) crisscrossing the rivers at several points.
Some is deep bracken beds, some gorse, some clitters of boulders. About 1/4 is former little field systems, on nice brown loam (the rest peat)

They come, they go, they loaf in the sun, stand in the fords.
The bull holds about 2/3 of them in one mob - but they nearly all calve in about 6 weeks.
This has been their home, under varying management choices, for many many decades
(We don't really know, but certainly predating the motor car for instance)

The pasture, on those little field systems, where bracken hasn't engulfed it- and they hold it more or less in check- is a wonder.
I found lots of a purple flower with them today I recognise but couldn't name, along with all the aforementioned, and lots more beside.

I spose some payments would be handy, but I'd sooner crawl over broken glass on my hands and knees than see that herd dislodged from their home.
It's apparently changed now-as the thread discusses-, but CS folk wouldn't take this valley in our agreement, as nothing interested them. Weird eh?

 

[Hindsight]

With this in mind, I dropped in on the bigger bunch of coos this pm, as I drove round the far side of the valley.
40 cows are living (year round) on maybe 100 acres, spread over maybe 1.5 miles of steep river valleys (up and down from the confluence of 2 rivers) crisscrossing the rivers at several points.
Some is deep bracken beds, some gorse, some clitters of boulders. About 1/4 is former little field systems, on nice brown loam (the rest peat)

They come, they go, they loaf in the sun, stand in the fords.
The bull holds about 2/3 of them in one mob - but they nearly all calve in about 6 weeks.
This has been their home, under varying management choices, for many many decades
(We don't really know, but certainly predating the motor car for instance)

The pasture, on those little field systems, where bracken hasn't engulfed it- and they hold it more or less in check- is a wonder.
I found lots of a purple flower with them today I recognise but couldn't name, along with all the aforementioned, and lots more beside.

I spose some payments would be handy, but I'd sooner crawl over broken glass on my hands and knees than see that herd dislodged from their home.
It's apparently changed now-as the thread discusses-, but CS folk wouldn't take this valley in our agreement, as nothing interested them. Weird eh?

You paint a bucolic picture of nature in harmony. Probably since the end of last ice Age. Under SFI 23 there was no non grazing period, that was a requirement under GS4 in Stewardship. I haven checked the 2024 SFI conditions for Herbal Ley, so might be different grazing rules, but check. Quite a shame these friendly equivalent of the hr of Bison that roamed the mid west of america are destroying the planet. Wonder if the old Bull ever looks up and wonders what is flying above him at 30,000 feet. hey ho. Best wis

 

[mixedfmr]

Basically just get your normal seed mix with 2 clovers and add Plantain and Chicory

I sow 5 year leys for sheep grazing with white clover, so if I add some red clover, plantain and chicory Ive covered the rules such as they are
I presume i will have to over seed for years 4 to 5, Then Im moving onto another area
So none of the other herbs mentioned last year then?
Or are things going to change with Labour in, Is that why your pushing RED clover to rub them up the right way , if thats pos

 

[Henarar]

You paint a bucolic picture of nature in harmony. Probably since the end of last ice Age. Under SFI 23 there was no non grazing period, that was a requirement under GS4 in Stewardship. I haven checked the 2024 SFI conditions for Herbal Ley, so might be different grazing rules, but check. Quite a shame these friendly equivalent of the hr of Bison that roamed the mid west of america are destroying the planet. Wonder if the old Bull ever looks up and wonders what is flying above him at 30,000 feet. hey ho. Best wis

the Bison would have moved on and the pasture got a rest.

 

[mixedfmr]

the Bison would have moved on and the pasture got a rest.

That would be the start of rotational grazing,
I thought I remembered it from some time
And only natural N with no Sulphur

 

[tinsheet]

I've already got way more than that* in my hay ground....can I just hold my hands out for the cash?

*red and white clover, masses of yarrow, rib grass, knapweed, soddin yellow rattle, as well as earlies like daisy/dandelion et al now long disappeared

Yes that's how I see it, entered plenty of pp in to sam3.
Red white clover, plantain, trefoil, yarrow. Jobs a good-un