Hi, anyone ever grown animals and crops together?

slackjawedyokel

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
@Maxicl Im a third generation farmer on my mixed farm in the far N of England.
I (like pretty much all farmers) try to farm in a way which is good for the land. Most of the farm is ploughable, and I have a few fields of ‘permanent pasture’ (ie. always grass) fields. The fields that are ploughable I have in a 7-year rotation of 5 years grass then 2 years of arable (barley or oats).

The grass part of the rotation is the ‘regenerative’ part- grass is brilliant at building up soil organic matter (SOM). SOM is excellent stuff for a number of reasons. It increases soil fertility, increases soil drainage and water-holding ability, reduces compaction and so on. Also SOM = carbon compounds so if SOM increases it means carbon is being sequestered; taken out of the air.

I’ve been farming like this for over 20 years now. Previously the land was cropped more intensively (more crop, less grass in the rotation). It worked fine, but I’m confident my levels of SOM are higher now.

The “Cattle and sheep cause climate change” narrative” is a lie based on a wilful misunderstanding of carbon cycles. I’ve lost count of the number of comparisons of livestock emissions vs other sectors (eg aviation), but any comparison is utterly invalid.

The driver of climate change is the build up of greenhouse gasses, primarily CO2, in the atmosphere.
When you, for example, travel by plane, fossil fuel is extracted from under the earth and put into the atmosphere where it stays contributing to the problem.
When you choose to eat a nice juicy steak from a farm like mine, it’s also true that that animal produced a lot of emissions (CO2 and CH4) BUT those emissions are NOT comparable with the ones from the plane because they are not cumulative. The calf that produced the emissions ate grass which photosynthesised CO2 out of the atmosphere- your basic carbon cycle. No extra cumulative carbon is produced to contribute to climate change.
The methane (CH4) issue is a sideshow. It is said to be a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 but it is not cumulative- it breaks down naturally in the atmosphere in around 7 to 12 years to CO2 and heads back into the carbon cycle.

I hope that’s clearer for you.
 

JockCroft

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
JanDeGrootLand
@Maxicl please do join in and respond here, and ask any further questions you may have.

And while a few may take the provrbiale P, and a few will growl at you, but it is well meaning and we will all help in many ways. FYI , I am a geriatric sheep farmer in a very less favoured area. (That is GovSpeak for hills and marginal land).
We grow Oats and a mix of turnip and kale for sheep feed. Main sale is prime Lamb.

The Oats may in future have a local market for for a small amount.
The Local Water powered meal mill is being refurbished.
A large visitor centre is being added and I am sure will be offering Brose, Porridge and Oatbread made with oatmeal ground on the premises.
Food miles would be 2 or 3 and Carbon footprint with almost zero electricity will be exceptionally low.

The only product to beat it would be our local Brewary's Pub. Draught has to travel about 6meters from Brew tanks to Bar counter.

It will take 1000's of topics and millions of threads to give you a little insight into farming.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi, I'm not sure if I'm quite representative of the people around me anyway, but also as you say neither am I in ag, but anyway to answer your question...

How did you think it worked? (Growing crops and animals together?)

I assumed some farmers would be pure livestock, and some pure plant based, with maybe a few small farm animals, and the minority mixed, due to the specialisation needed to do either job well. As well as that, I thought you sell a specific type of crop to a supermarket (like it's more of a 1 product contract, rather than a farm contract with a supermarket?).

My grandparents always had a compost pile for their allotment, and my other great grandmother sometimes collected cow pats for her allotment, or so I'm told.

So I'm a bit worried about the plant based move, as it might endanger growing animals, the alternative I read about seeming to be about rewilding, and having natural species thrive in a forest I suppose. Which isn't too bad, as well. But then that means less farms, perhaps a move towards vertical greenhouses, and less self grown food in the UK, or chemical based food. (which is also why I was wondering how sustainable ,i.e. can you sustain it, animal growing is, and how much it relies on food grown elsewhere. )

As well as that one thing I still can't stop mentioning is the cow burp/fart dilema with greenhouse gases. Assuming greenhouse gases do cause global warming, and some other such assumptions, one gets to some questionable topics, like reducing meat farming, or reducing the human population to have less 'cows' but same sort of lifestyle, which are both pretty important resolutions that may cause a while lot of other problems, and so we need to really consider the facts that lead the logic here with great care.
I have highlighted your comment about rewilding and forest cover. Understandable that you think prior to humans, Europe was wall to wall forest, after all, that is what everybody "knows", but science is now starting to look at pollen records and is finding that actually Europe was more a savannah landscape, kept that way by browsing mega fauna. The nearest we can get to mega fauna now is cattle.
 
Hi @Maxicl , you've already had some good answers on here but I thought I would add my little bit.
Ruminants have roamed this planet for millennia in some sort of shape or form, there are over 200 different species and conservatively there were thought to be as many buffalo/bison as we have domestic cattle now.
As others have mentioned they are part of a natural cycle, just like the water cycle if you will. If they were going to fry the earth it would have already happened, not just ramped up in the last couple of hundred years.
They are also nature's great up-cyclers, turning stuff we can't eat into nutrient dense products that we can.
You see a lot of mis- information banded about claiming how much land they need and how most crops are grown for livestock and should be fed to humans directly.
The truth is a lot of animal feed is derived from stuff that otherwise would be discarded after we as humans have extracted what we want from the plant.
Brewers grains, rapeseed meal, soya hulls are all examples of this but clever manipulation of numbers try to make it seem as if livestock feed is the primary market.
Finally I have several arable (plant based) farming friends who import thousands of tonnes of livestock manure onto their land each to keep their soils healthy.
This costs them money but they know it makes sense to look after their land.

In the past, the Earth has been home to massive herds of herbivores of all kinds and shapes and sizes. This is what elephant herds would have looked like for hundreds of years before people invented gun powder. And this is just elephants. Consider the amount of plant life that must have been around to support herds of these size. North America (and Europe) was covered in Bison once upon a time.

1699993003343.png


1699992834112.png
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Hi, thanks for answering.
Interesting.

And I suppose you spread the muck that doesn't spread itself (i.e. when the cattle is inside) later, or sell it to other farms..?

Another question
How much do you find you need to supplement the diet with feed crops (per cow per day of the summer/winter I suppose) and how do the feed crops typically work, are they typically from other farmers or companies or abroad?

Sorry for so many questions!
Max
I retain and use, all muck produced here, and yes, spread it myself.

For my cattle and sheep, the vast majority of feed is home grown grass and preserved as hay or silage. It is supplemented with minerals and the sheep also get some additional feedstuffs at certain times of year, such as close to lambing.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
i ❤️ elephance btw but not when they get in the corn 🤬
I remember when I was in India in the early 80's "up country" in Hill Station area where the local Planters were having problems with elephants coming out of the jungle areas. We discussed at length (over much whiskey) in the local Planters Club, if electric fencing would stop them.

My take was to have a cleared area and let the fence be visible and the animals could "sample it", as we do with sheep...
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I remember when I was in India in the early 80's "up country" in Hill Station area where the local Planters were having problems with elephants coming out of the jungle areas. We discussed at length (over much whiskey) in the local Planters Club, if electric fencing would stop them.

My take was to have a cleared area and let the fence be visible and the animals could "sample it", as we do with sheep...
sounds like a plan :D
 

Rooney

Member
Arable Farmer
I thought our neighbour would fit op's original post as he seems to let the sheep wander about his cereal field during the year maybe removing before harvest!
 

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