Hill flock protection - a new angle

[ladycrofter]

With the inevitable re-introduction of lynx and other predators, this looks like something that may also need to be re-introduced. Posted by a friend in the US who keeps goats on range and swears by these dogs. They have trouble mainly with mountain lions and coyotes.

Not sure why, these breeds were once common on the continent but AFAIK were never part of the UK farming scheme? They live out all year with the flock/herd.

 

[GTB]

What do they live on?

 

[ladycrofter]

I would like to show you the complete facebook video but it will not embed (again) . I have tried pasting into the media link, pasting as a link, pasting as a link and then re-linking, actually typing the URL in, and just about everything else. VERY frustrating and it would be nice if it would just work like any other embed.

@Clive @llamedos ? Any advice appreciated.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1549949488360485

 

[GTB]

How much do they cost?
How much do they eat?
How often do they need feeding?
What would they make of collies rounding up the flock?

It's going to be a significant cost unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Old Tip]

Use of dogs to protect flocks is widespread across the US, Canada and Eastern Europe. We being a small island managed to eradicate the main large predetors many many years ago so the use of dogs to protect flocks probably died out in early medevial times. This and the high population of humans has meant they have never been needed and I think they would not work in a uk situation due to human interference. I and others have had our sheep dogs dragged away by towny walkers thinking the dog is lost when it is actually out gathering sheep doing its job. Just think what would happen to the poor unsuspecting guard dogs, they would spend half there life in the local pound and I guess the RSPCA dogooders would be prosecuting you for animal cruelty because it hasn't got a central heated hut and sky tv out on the moor.
The whole idea of releasing these killers is absolutely insane in our over populated countryside and is being pushed by a small group of blinkered enthusiasts with very poor reasons.

OT

 

[ladycrofter]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1549949488360485

Well, as said, the video is interesting but I cannot get it to embed. I can actually see the link when I go to Edit but there is nothing when I post.

@Old Tip some very good points. The real solution is to try and educate these wild-life do-gooders as to why these animals were eradicated in the first place.

 

[Philip Watkins]

@ladycrofter you have managed to post the video (twice now). In post #3 and post #6

 

[GrannyAching]

I think @rangerdf said he has these dogs but I can't check his profile to see if I have remembered correctly.

 

[Dry Rot]

One rather sceptical dog owner here! Basically, I believe the dogs are brought up in close contact with livestock, e.g. sheep, from a very early age so the dog comes to think it is a sheep -- as do the flock! From there, the dog's natural social and territorial instincts take over. One of my GSDs got bitten by a fox, which she then killed, and that awakened a deep hatred for them. How she knew there was a fox about, I don't know, but she would wake me up by going to the back door and anxiously whining. Let out, she would be off like an express train. I do not lose many of my free range poultry to foxes! So, I'd have thought any dog with strong aggressive and territorial instincts could be brought up do the job. The breeders of any unusual or exotic breed seem to be quite good at promoting it for profit!

From Wikipedia:

Training:
The dogs are introduced to livestock as puppies so they "imprint" on the animals. Experts recommending that the pups begin living with the herd at 4 to 5 weeks of age. This imprinting is thought to be largely olfactory and occurs between 3 and 16 weeks of age. There are many myths in the West regarding the training of livestock guardian dogs, particularly the very incorrect idea that human contact should be kept to a minimum. Training requires regular daily handling and management, preferably from birth. A guardian dog is not considered reliable until it is at least 2 years of age. Up until that time supervision, guidance and correction is needed to teach the dog the skill and rules it needs to do its job. Having older dogs that assist in training younger dogs streamlines this process considerably.

There are even trials underway to protect penguins.

In Namibia in Southwest Africa, Anatolians are used to guard goat herds from cheetahs, and are typically imprinted between seven and eight weeks of age. Before use of dogs was implemented, impoverished Namibian farmers often came into conflict with predatory cheetahs; now, Anatolians usually are able to drive off cheetahs with their barking and displays of aggression.

 

[ladycrofter]

@ladycrofter you have managed to post the video (twice now). In post #3 and post #6

Ooohh thanks, that is really weird because it doesn't show at all in either posts on my computer. I must have a setting or something or other wrong. Thanks.

 

[Gulli]

How much do they cost?
How much do they eat?
How often do they need feeding?
What would they make of collies rounding up the flock?

It's going to be a significant cost unless I'm mistaken.

They are trained to be a part of the flock as protection but also part of the family so they don't kill the shepherd or his kids. I think that they tolerate collies that they know but are often taken out of the flock at gathering time (stand to be corrected here!)

Feeding is easy they live on bears and ramblers for the most part
Big dogs though so if you don't get many fat walkers around you then it may get through a fair few of them

 

[unlacedgecko]

Current UK legislation makes the use of livestock guardian dogs illegal.

 

[It was already broken.]

Current UK legislation makes the use of livestock guardian dogs illegal.

Not heard that. Where have you got that from?

 

[ThatsSomeSheep]

Re the OP

Personally I reckon the re-introduction of Lynx (in Scotland at least) is far from likely.

TSS

 

[pgk]

Who will tell the lynx if released in kielder not to cross the border

 

[unlacedgecko]

Not heard that. Where have you got that from?

Dangerous Dogs Act means owner is criminally responsible for persons injured by the dog.

I don't think you'd get on very well with welfare rules if the dog has no shelter either.

 

[ThatsSomeSheep]

Who will tell the lynx if released in kielder not to cross the border

Well, if I was to guess....they would be classed as an illegal alien species and therefore fair game - Boom Baby!

But, you don't really think the release in Kielder will go ahead??

TSS

 

[llamedos]

@OogieM
May like to add something to this thread.

 

[reverand]

I like the idea of it, it would keep dog attacks on sheep down but it would have to be on large isolated farms where there are little public footpaths about
There was two German shepherd dogs roaming the moor around here for a week, a while back. They were hunting together a killed a couple of dozen sheep I heard

 

[Coximus]

It exists here, I borrow a working romanian x collie occasionally, which can tell the difference between the shearers working dogs and a dog walkers, it will find a fox and finish it in seconds, yet will loll around with the sheep in the shade, the sheep somehow, read shes safe and not a threat. She will work with any other working dog, yet a dog off lead on the harrogate cycle way, will be upside down submitting in a split second, silent, and will then scarper.
She will walk along side walkers on a path and their dog will cower and turn back.
This dog is restricted to rounding sheep on large parcels for this reason, behaves more like a huntaway when rounding up than a collie, Wish I could buy it, but the neighbour with this accidental wonder wont let me use her without him being their!

It could be done, and would jsut require training, howabout a flock dog you take with you like the farm dog? do a day here and their when needed?