How Best To Manage Dirty 'No-till' Stubbles Post Harvest Pre Drilling /Also Breaking the BYDV Green Bridge?

[Robert]

Thinking about our bean stubbles in particular which have a fairly weedy understory this year. Some of the weeds if left will set seed imminently (groundsel being our particular nemesis nowadays), but don't want to be too reliant on more than one pre-planting roundup.

Also - thinking about our spring oat stubbles in particular, do you just accept there needs to be 2 Glyphosates to break the green bridge and then subsequently catch any late grass weed emergence?

Thanks

 

[nxy]

Depends how important "no till" is to you. There is potentially 5 weeks minimum until cereal drilling so you have a choice - spray twice or cultivate once hoping to kill what ever is setting seed and then spray once later. Spraying twice is cheaper and closer to the true direct driller disciple approach and more likely to acheive your goal. At least its half the cost of last year.

We are normally browned right off at this point of the year and the thought of using glyphosate now is alien but we are spraying most mornings while there is some moisture because there is so much sh!t growing in our stubble. In happier news we normally use a third of our hay in the summer but the cow's won't touch hay as they have grass.

 

[DrWazzock]

Cranesbill, groundsel, fieid pansy, Buck thistle. 6 litres per ha now then another litre just before drilling?
6 litres is a silly amount. I’m discing then ploughing.

 

[4course]

were the beans and oats sown no till ?

 

[DrWazzock]

I’ve done a few years of continuous no till. I’m all for it on many levels but we do get a build up of certain weeds and soil stratification / slumping problems. No doubt it’s because we are doing it all wrong but a cultivation reset helps break the problems in my view, though it’s with a heavy heart I revert to steel and diesel. I’m a small farm. I need a big heap every year. I can’t survive on virtue of I’m a ton an acre down.

 

[Wigeon]

I can’t survive on virtue of I’m a ton an acre down.

This.

Slightly off topic, but I had a carbon selling outfit review my data and tell me they were worried I was compromising my potential earning capacity (up to £30/ha) by doing some cultivations....

 

[DrWazzock]

This.

Slightly off topic, but I had a carbon selling outfit review my data and tell me they were worried I was compromising my potential earning capacity (up to £30/ha) by doing some cultivations....

Yes. A lot of these schemes entail a lot of messing about for £12 an acre when concentrating on growing the crop properly could give us another £200 per acre.
I need to make £200 an acre profit to survive without BPS. That’s much more likely to come from farming for high output than being diverted for a few quid an acre. I’d also argue that maximising output is better for my carbon footprint as generally same amount of inputs but higher output equals less kg carbon per tonne product.

 

[Bramble]

Yes. A lot of these schemes entail a lot of messing about for £12 an acre when concentrating on growing the crop properly could give us another £200 per acre.
I need to make £200 an acre profit to survive without BPS. That’s much more likely to come from farming for high output than being diverted for a few quid an acre. I’d also argue that maximising output is better for my carbon footprint as generally same amount of inputs but higher output equals less kg carbon per tonne product.

Agree about maximising output to improve carbon footprint. Our dairy carbon scheme is pretty much all about increasing yield/cow to reduce our carbon footprint for each litre of milk sold. Luckily our processor is going to give us some pointers on how we can become more ‘efficient’.

It’s all a bit insulting really, dairy farm numbers have reduced by 20,000 over 25 years. Do they really think those that are left are surviving by being inefficient???

 

[Robert]

were the beans and oats sown no till ?

Both after grazed covers, Oats JD750A in March, Beans with Claydon in February

 

[ollie989898]

Dirty stubbles containing groundsel, etc. Kyleo would be my go-to choice I think.

 

[Brisel]

Thinking about our bean stubbles in particular which have a fairly weedy understory this year. Some of the weeds if left will set seed imminently (groundsel being our particular nemesis nowadays), but don't want to be too reliant on more than one pre-planting roundup.

Also - thinking about our spring oat stubbles in particular, do you just accept there needs to be 2 Glyphosates to break the green bridge and then subsequently catch any late grass weed emergence?

Thanks

If you don't want to disturb soil yet kill the weeds, you have little alternative to glyphosate. Consider Kyleo as it will do the broad leafed weeds with less grammes of glyphosate.

A straw rake might help chit the stubbles but won't kill well established plants.

 

[Andy12345]

Wheat stubbles here are pretty dirty and going into Winter Barley so given we are no plough, the power harrow has gone in today an inch deep, where needed a pass with the Sumo DTS , let it green up , Glyphosate pre drilling and in with the Claydon Hybrid ... jobs a good un hopefully !

 

[ajd132]

Direct drilling has been really easy for the last 5 years. Been pretty dry at harvest and not silly amounts of straw.
Thankfully we baled most, with huge straw yields, but where we chopped there is an enourmous mat of the stuff. Ctf wheelings and headlands have taken a beating so running a LD flat lift through them, doing some straw raking too.
Have cultivated everything for spring crops and cover crop planted, and have cultivated quite a few winter cropped fields as done a lot of mole draining.
Think we have to play what’s infront of us!

 

[DrWazzock]

Dirty stubbles containing groundsel, etc. Kyleo would be my go-to choice I think.

Megabucks and a 60 day interval if drilling a broadleaved crop.
Ploughing here. Slow and expensive as well and doesn’t solve long term structural problems.
Back to the drawing board.

 

[Smithy67]

Dirty stubbles containing groundsel, etc. Kyleo would be my go-to choice I think.

I used Kyleo pre OSR and it never even got out the starting blocks! Think it was residual 24D as it germinated fine in a small missed bit. Proper school day for me!

 

[Dbs32]

The machinery companies really have performed a masterclass when you think about it. Everybody got sold a 100k plus drill that can do everything and traded all their cultivation gear in for pennies.

Then when you start getting some issues they can supply a new LD subsoiler, straw rakes, maybe some discs. Even a shallow cultivator.

Be selling you something that turns the soil over next!

Hopefully this year we'll see some of the virtue signalling in farming calm down a little. Maybe the traditional guys don't do it all bad!

 

[MrNoo]

Yup, I bought a Weaving Subdisc off a chap not a million miles away from here, he bought a bright Orange drill for £70k plus new tractor to pull it. Gather he's borrowed a Subdisc off another friend to go through all his ground!!

 

[Grass And Grain]

The machinery companies really have performed a masterclass when you think about it. Everybody got sold a 100k plus drill that can do everything and traded all their cultivation gear in for pennies.

Then when you start getting some issues they can supply a new LD subsoiler, straw rakes, maybe some discs. Even a shallow cultivator.

Be selling you something that turns the soil over next!

Hopefully this year we'll see some of the virtue signalling in farming calm down a little. Maybe the traditional guys don't do it all bad!

Ploughing might be cheapest way to rectify wrecked soils. If soils are too wet, then subsoiler almost does more harm than good.

Ploughing with grass leys in the rotation and plenty of FYM, probably competes quite well with a DD system.

 

[ajd132]

The machinery companies really have performed a masterclass when you think about it. Everybody got sold a 100k plus drill that can do everything and traded all their cultivation gear in for pennies.

Then when you start getting some issues they can supply a new LD subsoiler, straw rakes, maybe some discs. Even a shallow cultivator.

Be selling you something that turns the soil over next!

Hopefully this year we'll see some of the virtue signalling in farming calm down a little. Maybe the traditional guys don't do it all bad!

A few days straw raking and flat lifting some CTF interims and headlands every few years is alot still a lot cheaper than ploughing 5000 acres!
I think you have a point though, loads of excitement around something, start seeing the issues a few years down the line then have to adapt abit.

 

[ollie989898]

Megabucks and a 60 day interval if drilling a broadleaved crop.
Ploughing here. Slow and expensive as well and doesn’t solve long term structural problems.
Back to the drawing board.

But glyphosate alone won't control some of these odder broad leaved weeds.